James O'Brien

It’s two years since the first terrible flood impacted my beautiful hometown of Lismore in Northern NSW. Just a few weeks later another flood came through.

The anniversary is being remembered by many communities in the Northern Rivers.

I was asked by ABC Radio Sydney to appear on the air today to remember those times and to reflect on what’s happened since. Here’s the audio, along with an automated transcript, corrected for spelling and grammar. Please comment if you see any major inaccuracies, as it was autogenerated and spell-checked.

James Valentine: Yeah, that’s what we heard, only two years ago, in 2022, between February and March, when those two floods hit Lismore, resulting in the tragic deaths of four people. It was a very, very tragic event, and the place is still recovering. James O’Brien, a longtime ABC broadcaster and local manager, was there—I initially thought you were already there, but you were not.

James O’Brien: No, I was still here. I spent the night talking to various family members on the phone, including my sister, a woman in her 70s. I vividly remember telling her it seemed like the water would enter the house, located in South Lismore. She initially thought it might rise a couple of feet, but I corrected her, suggesting it could be a couple of meters. Many houses in Lismore and South Lismore are two stories, and if the water reached the top of the doorframes, it went over the roof. This was a stark contrast to the floods of 1974, where water reached only the top step on Casino Street Southwest. This particular event was extraordinary, even for those accustomed to floods in south and other parts of town. My sister and her husband, both in their 70s and 80s, stayed at home, thinking it would be fine, with water only in the backyard. However, water suddenly entered the house, and my sister still vividly recalls seeing water coming through the floorboards. It haunts her to this day. When Pat and Jack, my sister and her husband, were rescued, they were standing on the kitchen bench with water up to their chests. Thank goodness they were rescued, as some people, like the fantastic local woman Comarch Graham, a country music singer I’ve known for 40 years, tragically drowned. Many lives were lost in the floodwaters.

James Valentine: Yeah, no, it was an incredible tragedy. It seemed as though no one quite knew it was coming; people didn’t get the warnings they should have. Perhaps it was more significant, and maybe the communication process wasn’t in place. What’s the sense in the tale now about what happened?

James O’Brien: Well, certainly, the text messages came in the next day. So there are all sorts of things that can happen, but there was also, I think, an underestimation for various reasons. One of the reasons is that some of the Flood Warning markers you normally have from upstream were flooded. So, there was no warning coming through, and also the full length of the flood. Generally, what happens is the flood will come in as fog and make its way down the river all the way down to Bala. But what happened this time is everywhere was flooded at the same time. So, the water came up everywhere, and no one really had an idea of how big it was going to be until it started to come up through the floorboards.

James Valentine: How is it now? You might like to join us if you have some experience, you’re listening in the area, and you can see what’s happening. What’s been happening? How’s the town recovering? How’s the area recovering? Because this was part of the problems we talked about in the months and the year or so afterward. A lot of people coming in for reconstruction. Well, where are they going to stay? Where are they going to live? What’s been the effect on all towns around Lismore? Let us know; our text line is 04679 double 2702, or you can call us directly on 1300 Triple 2 702. How are things now, James?

James O’Brien: Looking around town, the main block of shops has reopened, which is fantastic. The main shopping square, Lismore Square, has also reopened. I’ve got to tell you, that was really strange because it was built above the 1974 flood level, and surely but it flooded. But it’s back now, okay. A lot of people, as you say, have moved away. I ran into someone in Newtown last weekend. I was wearing a Lismore T-shirt, and the guy said you probably as well. And we talked, and I knew exactly he left pretty soon afterward. A lot of people have moved away. A lot of people are still living in tents. I was talking to someone earlier today who said, “Look, there’s a guy who’s living just down the road from me in a tent. There are lots of people who are still sleeping on someone else’s lounge room. There are people who are in tents in their backyard.” So, even though there was a pod village set up at Southern Cross University afterward, there were still lots of people who are homeless. Yeah, literally homeless. Might be there. Yeah, it’s less of a home. So, it’s uninhabitable, and the situation hasn’t been resolved. Insurance money hasn’t come through; government money hasn’t come through, that kind of thing. In our part of South Lismore, so people will know where my family lives is next to Skim O’s. So, people will know exactly where that is. And next door was Beverly; she fortunately died a while back. Oh, and then the three houses down to the creek, and they’re all empty. And then across the road, there are 123 or four houses on the other side of the road, and they’re all empty. Some of them have not had any repairs done at all. Do you think we’re talking a dozen 20 houses? Or is it in the hundreds? I think it’s hundreds.

James Valentine: And has the town overall recovered? I would imagine that this is still a very difficult time; yeah, you know, how does it attract new businesses to come in or someone to move there as a school teacher or something like that?

James O’Brien : Well, it was really interesting. I mean, some businesses opened really quickly. I could talk about the pub if you like. The Metropole hotel reopened really quickly, and they’re doing pretty well. There’s a wonderful bar that’s opened called the levee, only Lismore would call a bar the levee, and theyre doing really well, and some businesses are doing okay. Others have moved to other neighboring towns; others have just not reopened at all. You know, there’s only one I know who’s a naturopath, and she’s had to find other accommodation. For a long time, though, if you walked around the main block of Lismore, shops were absolutely empty. My school, Lismore Public School, is still empty. Right now they’ve put demountables across the road. And my high school, Richmond River High School, it’s empty as well; both schools are being demolished. And the kids are going to demountables at another high school as well. So yeah, so that’s just two schools; the Catholic school has also closed and won’t reopen, and so on. Let me know what you’re experiencing and seeing; our text line is 04679 double 2702. You can call us on 1300 Triple 2 702.

James Valentine: Hi Harper, How are you going? Yeah. What do you wanna tell us?

Harper: Yeah, I just wanted to kind of echo all the statements that the previous gentleman was providing; all of that’s really accurate. I’m a South Lismore resident. So a lot of people’s sentiment is that the recovery, unfortunately, was kind of more damaging to the community than the flood itself, just by how poorly it was managed. Thankfully, it started to get a lot better in the last six months. And one of the really positive things that have come out of the flood is after a buyback, people are given the option to relocate their hardwood historical homes. And so we’ve already seen two houses find new homes on high ground. So over time, so you can physically move the houses that we’re describing, Harper. Exactly right. If you can raise a house, as the previous gentleman was speaking about a lot of the houses that raised up two stories on stilts, you can raise a house; you can, in most circumstances, relocate the homes. So the homes that are suitable for relocation, it’s actually cheaper than raising the home to already have found a new site on higher ground where they will never flood again. My grandparents’ house was actually relocated after the 1974 flood, which was the largest flood we had prior to the February one. So there’s definitely a precedent there. So that’s one of the positive things. But I guess, you know, it’s going to take a long time. We’ve seen situations where half the street will get a buyback and the other half of the street have told they’re not eligible for anything, particularly in South Lismore. It’s usually a lower socio-economic area, and it’s been rated one of the lowest priorities. So I think there’s still work to do. The community is very strong; people have come together through this. And I think that we’ll see more of that in the future. And hopefully, we start to see better planning controls and encouraging people to kind of move where they can outside of floods they can get into so they’re not reliant on government intervention. Tell me more about how that recovery was damaging. I mean, that’s a strange phrase, isn’t it? You know, that it was more damaging. Was it just sort of slow? Was it what was it that made it damaging? It was a lot of different things. So one of the first things was people were told to wait, wait for the buyback and you will get help. So many people waited for over a year to find out they weren’t eligible for anything. So they’ve actually put their recovery back by a year. Because if you, for example, were waiting and hoping that you were going to get a buyback, well, you’re living without walls, or you’re paying for a rental as well as the mortgage on the house to find out what you’re actually eligible for no assistance. So you can imagine for hundreds of people, that was probably a real slap in the face, and it’s also caused division somewhat in our communities. Because, you know, people on one side of Lismore say, you know, we’ve been neglected. People on the other side of Lismore say, you know, my neighbor’s got a buyback, but I’m not getting anything. Unfortunately, with Lismore, because New South Wales hadn’t seen a disaster of this scale, it was all really new. So they were building the recovery mode roadmap as they went along. Whereas if you go three hours overboard in Queensland, they’re the most disaster-prone state, so they had things in place. So, for example, in a rollout buybacks, they go street by street; one neighbor’s told they’re eligible for no assistance, not a retrofit or anything. And the next-door neighbor gets, you know, a $600,000 payout.

James O’Brien: I’ve met Harper a couple of times, and they’re a really inspirational figure, and there have been lots of people in Lismore who have really risen to the challenge. What’s happened? It’s interesting; Harper mentioned, for example, the inequity between the buybacks, so my sister has been eligible for the buyback and is going to be moving house in the next couple of months. Okay. But her brother-in-law, two streets away, isn’t eligible, despite the fact that he and his wife are in their late 80s. And it’s not very apparent that there’s any great difference between the two.

Harper: So I’d say that’s hard as text correspondences, my 84-year-old father’s still living in his flood-damaged house; he stayed in the house and walked barefoot through the water. He’s looking at the second winter with no floor coverings and gaps. He’s paid 42 years of insurance premiums to the same company. We’ve now had to engage a solicitor. Yeah, there’s too much of that habit. Stay with us. I’ve got you on hold the button. So stay with us; we might bring you back into the conversation.

James Valentine: Eddie, you’re in Mullumbimby. What’s your experience?

Eddie: Mine’s pretty bad. I was totally destroyed. My wife and I were hit with two landslides. One destroyed the house. And we were in it when it hit. Another landslide destroyed my work shed and all my woodworking equipment, and a flood, my business and my music studio. And we’ve done all the things, you know, we were told, like other people were told to be help. And we did all the meetings, and we did all the applications. And the last thing we heard was a couple of months ago saying we’ll be in touch soon, you know. So it’s sort of, we’re stuck living in a situation where we’re faced, literally with a house that’s just a total mess, half demolished, and living in a van where we have to come and go because of the fear of the weather. We’re just sort of every time it rains, if anything happens, we just turn to a mess. And we’re just waiting, and you’re sitting there and you can’t move; you can’t stay right any. That’s basically I’m actually on what’s known as an MOA. And they found another spot on; we’re on 200 acres, and we’ve actually found another spot that’s a very safe spot, and I could go to that spot. But financially, I’m just not in that position to better do all of that. My fortunate had a little bit of contents insurance, and that enabled us to buy a motorhome. So our life now is living in a motorhome, escaping weather, and trying to get in there basically, and hoping for something.

James Valentine: Thanks so much for sharing his story with a painful I know it’s painful to do that as well to tell us so I do appreciate you going through for us, James? Yeah, we wouldn’t play the New South Wales reconstructed Northern Rivers Reconstruction Authority; we had to report into the area, why are we still hearing any story today?

James O’Brien: One of the things that I think my family’s been quite lucky with is I’ve worked for the ABC for a long time. So I’m quite good at dealing with bureaucracy. So I was able to fill in the forms; I was able to help out with lots of things. We’ve also received some help from a local organization called Social Futures, a wonderful man called Tim, who’s helped with some of these things, and many of the people in town just didn’t know where to start on some of the paperwork, meaning some people, for example, in our part of South Lismore, are quite old. And there’s also quite, it’s a working-class kind of area, so maybe not the best levels of education and so on. And there was some help along the way, but also some of it just seemed too high. Yeah, but I suppose, and we’ve seen this with fire-affected areas, and we can hear the same stories from a CoBar or somewhere like that, that is still waiting for money. And for the help, I suppose we expected the government at this point goes beyond whether you’re connected, whether, you know, we know how to fill out the form. So there is that; that’s the helpdesk that needs to be there. Yeah, I mean, there was certainly some door-knocking going on in our part of town where, you know, the some of the organization would really come in and help, you know, on a very practical kind of basis in the week after the floods; we were cleaning up my sister’s house, and, you know, volunteers just turned up Yeah, from Byron and from Brisbane and places like that. Yeah, people brought food in, but also some of the social welfare organizations became aware of people in need for older people in particular.

James Valentine: Harper, why do you think Eddie is still sitting there, and he still hasn’t been… You know, it just shouldn’t be the case, should it? Over two years on for an event like this, whether it’s a fire or whether it’s a flood, two years on it shouldn’t still be sitting there in limbo?

Harper: No, I do agree. I think it’s a very complex thing, but that doesn’t change somebody as experienced as it to say our biggest programme of its kind these things take time, but it doesn’t actually change that real-life experience for somebody like Eddie. And you’ll hear that story in varying degrees, you know, for hundreds of people still currently. So we’ve got to think that we’ve had an extremely competent state members and our staff and Lismore that fought really hard to get us the Reconstruction Authority. We’ve got that now. I’m hopeful that in the future that the lessons we’ve learned through this recovery are put into action through other disaster-affected areas. So they don’t have people like two years on still not knowing what they’re going to be eligible for. Josie, interesting that Harper just mentioned Animal Saffron. It’s a local member; she’s not a spring chicken, no. And she’s also quite a small woman. She swam safely in the flood. And we actually heard her voice in that package. I remember speaking with her on the day, like a few hours after she’d done that. She’d swam out and, you know, then was going back and helping everybody, and I think was also very active in getting the Northern Rivers reconstruction thing into place. The demands for government were very powerful. Tim, what are you seeing?

Tim: Yeah, James, I live on the hill outside of Lismore. And, you know, it’s been a pretty big change to the town; you know, I’ve had a lot of friends leave because they either took a buyback or just left after the floods because they were renting and they needed to get away from the area. So there’s a big change in the population; like we’re in decline. If you look at the school, that most of the best schools in town, they’ve all declined in the number of students that are attending, you know, my kids’ school’s flood-free, and they’ve lost 30 or 40 students in the last two years. And then there are schools in the flood zone that have lost, you know, more than 100. So, yeah, I’d say there’s a big change in the number of people living in the area just because people are traumatized and wanting to get out. But I think the biggest things that the different levels of government aren’t pulling in the same direction. You know, our state government has put all of this money for buying back homes, raising homes, and supporting people to rebuild, which is great for those that get the support. But, you know, when you hear the local government, they’re really not all on the same page, and they’ve made it really hard for people to move homes. You know, I hear you’re talking about people moving homes, but actually, in the Lismore council area, it’s extremely difficult for someone to move a home up the hill; they just can’t do it because the regulations don’t permit it. And the council keeps having the Council staff bring proposals to them to change the regulation so that someone from Lismore can move their home up the hill to get an alibi, but they haven’t actually done anything to change the regulation so someone can. So if you want to move a house out of Lismore into an urban area, you literally can’t do it under the planning rules that are here at the moment. Yeah, Tim, I am struck by what you’re saying because it’s kind of what I would imagine that I suppose I compare it to somewhere like the Blue Mountains, which is regularly hit by fire, but you know, Katoomba continues, and Blackheath continues. They say that seems to be almost that’s in the mentality. Lismore is in the middle of, you know, what is a booming Northern Rivers area, you know, from Byron through to the Tweeds and all this sort of thing. It’s it’s part of where lots of people live to then work and all those places. Yet I imagine that it’s almost psychologically affected him.

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. Like I just can’t believe the change in people’s spirits in this town. I moved here from the Blue Mountains actually, and you know, it’s such a different mentality after a bushfire in the mountains; people seem to bounce back a lot quicker after a bushfire. This flood has definitely been quite traumatizing, even for people that weren’t directly affected. The size perhaps is the scale because it was so completely different. I think what I’m getting out of this James O’Brien is to conclude is that sort of sense of you would think that we had these things in place; you know, it says in our national poem, “droughts and flooding rains.”

James O’Brien: We’re aware of these disasters; my family has lived in the area for over 100 years on both sides. You know, we thought, if floods, you know, we’ll live with that. But this happened two years ago, and then a few weeks later, it was like nothing really was ever thought. I have an aunt who is no longer alive, an Aboriginal woman. And she told us when I was a kid about a flood there on the scale and no, we couldn’t.

James Valentine: Well, it’s as simple as that. Within about 10 years of first colonisation alone and a peon, yeah, they had a flood that spread the Parramatta. Yeah, it was enormous and it’s never come again, but it is there, and it’s in the white record. It’s in the observer, the diaries, the journals of settlers that there was actually a capacity. Harbour, thanks so much for calling in and joining the conversation. No worries, anytime. I have a good day; hold on. Yeah. And look, all the best to all those listening in the area. And by and beyond these days can be hard when you’re marking an anniversary, almost seems like the wrong word. But you’re marking the moment two years ago when those floods hit James. Thanks so much, pleasure.