I am currently going through my radio archives, searching for interesting bits and pieces to share. My latest “gem” to share is an interview with Senator Flo Bjelke-Petesen.
It suddenly occurred to me that a whole generation of Australians may have no living memory of Lady Flo (she became that when her husband was knighted). She and her husband, Sir Joh, were central and highly polarising figures in Australian politics, dominating the Queensland landscape throughout the 1970s and 80s. This interview from the ABC Radio Riverina Morning Show captures Senator Flo’s unique public persona and offers a fascinating look at the state of the National Party and the famous political couple’s life after office.
🎙️ ABC ARCHIVES: Senator Flo Bjelke-Petersen
JAMES O’BRIEN: What made you come to the area? What was your motivation in coming here?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, Noel Hicks is the member for Riverina. Wagga is going to be part of the electorate of Riverina, and I believe that it’s nice to be able to come with one of my colleagues in the House of Representatives and, and have a day in Riverina or future Riverina with Noel and supporting him because I believe he’s been an excellent member for Riverina and I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t sort of be the member for Riverina, including this area after this election.
JAMES O’BRIEN: The election or the by election or the removal of the boundaries, the changing of the boundaries, he really has become a focus for what the National Party is these days. Bearing in mind that both the nationals and the liberals are supporting Fight Back, what is the difference now?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, I believe that the National Party has a very important role to play for rural Australia. I believe that all along. And we, you know, take our do our job as we see fit that sort of to assist the the people who are on the land. And this is a very, very rural area. And I believe that it’s a very good area for the National Party to represent. I mean, people who know Noel Hicks know the tremendous job that he’s done when he’s represented places like Broken Hill, Cobar and all those places are way out in the bush. And you’ve got to face it that the Liberal Party is more or less, well, it’s big business. There’s the National Party with the rural people and big business with the liberals. And I think that that’s how I’ve always understood it, particularly in Queensland, where we were for many years. We had a coalition up there, and then we got our numbers and we we had a party, the National Party, on her own. And I think all you need to do to look is to look at Queensland and see the tremendous success that the National Party had in Queensland over so many years. And we grew, we grew, we developed. We had tremendous, um, you know, input from business as well as rural people. And that’s the type of national party that I believe is well worthwhile as part of the coalition.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Do you think the success of the National Party in Queensland can be achieved on a federal level in Australia?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, I believe that that’s something that they should be aiming for. I certainly believe that. Of course, there is a slight difference. I guess that when you’re a majority party in a coalition, it’s a little bit, sometimes harder to to get everything that you feel ought to be done by comparison with the senior party in the coalition. And I think that. But if you have no input, then you’re not able to do anything. And that’s why it’s important, I suppose.
JAMES O’BRIEN: What sort of things do you mean?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, to assist rural people, I mean, I look at the, you know, road, road tax plan. I, I look at, um, you know, the rural industries. I look at the need that there will be eventually to have lower prices for petrol. I mean, I, I’m quite sure it was National Party input into fight back that caused the petrol prices to be included. You know that there’ll be a great reduction in the price of petrol. And I think that as far as people on the land are concerned, I think that they’ll certainly be an input, because I believe that when we get into government, there’s a very great need for things to, for fertiliser to come down in price. I this when we, when Doug Anthony and our party were part of the of the government, in government we played a very important role as far as help to rural people concerned when it comes to taxation problems. And I believe that this is a very good reason why we do need the input of a national party with a strong voice. Of course, to be able to put our case and make sure that these are the things that are looked at. And I mean, as far as business is concerned, of course, I mean, it’s very important that they’re looked after as well. And of course, as I see it as far as this present government is concerned, uh, private enterprise just doesn’t have a chance. And that’s very important part, not only from the National Party, from the Liberal Party point of view, to encourage private enterprise and give them a chance to be able to provide jobs and job opportunities. Would you have ever imagined, James, that in Australia there could be one million unemployed people caused by this labor government? And who who do not give private enterprise any chance to to come up, you know, and provide the jobs and job opportunities. I’m quite sure that Curtin and Chifley would turn in their graves if they knew that a labor government in Australia had taken unemployment to such disastrous levels in our country.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Do you think the role of the nationals in the coalition is as strong as it was when Doug Anthony was leader?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, part of the government, I suppose, when Doug Anthony was there and that’s, you know, saying something, you’re able to play a much better part. I think when you’re part of a, of a government than you are, perhaps when you’re part of a of a of a A opposition, and, uh, I can’t I can’t see any reason why we can’t play an important role. I think once we get there and, uh, we’re part of the government, I believe that we’ll have a part to play. I certainly like to think so.
JAMES O’BRIEN: But of course, the numbers aren’t as big as they were when Doug Anthony was around.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Probably not either. Well, that’s all the more reason why we need to work and work harder to make sure that we get more numbers. And that’s what the National Party is all about. And it’s not just here in New South Wales, it’s right throughout Australia, and it’s in Queensland too. And we’ve got quite a number of seats that we’re targeting up there to help make up the numbers for the National Party after the election.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Now the libs say they can do the same thing. They can look after the country as well. Would that be true?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, that’s their opinion. I have mine, so we’ll leave it at that.
JAMES O’BRIEN: You don’t think they can look after it as well as the nationals?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, I believe that we’ve been doing that for a mighty long time and all. I like to look at the way, uh, the nationals were able to run Queensland and and we did it very well indeed when we didn’t have anybody in coalition with us when we did it on our own. So I think it’s just a case of, uh, you know, if you got if you’re there with policies that people like, then they’ll vote for you.
JAMES O’BRIEN: What do you think it’s needed? What do you what do you think is what do you think is needed to to to raise the nationals around Australia to the level it was in Queensland?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, I don’t know. I suppose just good solid hard work and, and being able to sort of put their case before people having people like Noel Hicks representing them in the parliament. I mean, those are the sort of people that they need and that they need to speak up and do a good job.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Because many people suggested it was your husband, Sir Joe, that played such an influential role in bringing the the nationals to pre-eminence in Queensland.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Oh, well, I like to think so. If you could believe what? As I go around Queensland, all the people who tell me when they shake hands with me, they don’t bother to say how I am. They say, How’s Joe? And he’s still got a tremendous following. And I believe he did do a tremendous job in Queensland. There’s no doubts about it. And I believe strong leadership is what is what it’s all about. And that’s what you need.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Have the nationals in Queensland been as strong without him?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, I wouldn’t like to. I wouldn’t like to say so, but I don’t think they have. I mean, as far as I’m concerned. But then I might be a bit biased, wouldn’t I? Anybody listening to this broadcast would say, well, naturally, she’d say that because, I mean, she or I have always said, James, actually, that Joe had the best political nous of anybody I knew. And I think I still agree with that. And I, I’d like to feel that some of his ability rubbed off onto me. I don’t know whether it has or not. I suppose I’ve been fortunate enough that over the years of the eleven years I’ve been three elections, and I’ve been able to head the, you know, the ticket each time. And the last time we got four senators in. So I thought, I thought that wasn’t bad, but I still don’t know. Actually, James, whether it was all my, my efforts or whether the fact that I had the Bjelke-Petersen name might have helped a bit.
JAMES O’BRIEN: What do you think was at the heart of Joe’s nous? What was he able to look at and think? Yes, this is what we should do. How did he do that?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, he used to say, is it right or is it wrong? That was how he dealt with problems. And he did what he thought was right. Now, look, don’t get me wrong. Not everybody in Queensland thought he was the greatest. But enough people did. And when they talked about this fact that Queensland got there by a gerrymander, don’t you? I don’t believe that. Because I believe that when you look now at the rearranged electorates after the last, you know, fiasco that they had three years ago, and then they decided that they’d go for the one vote, one value. And what happened? The the labor weren’t able to have a runaway win after all. They found out that it wasn’t any different. I mean, it was just exactly it was just more or less actually the same. And, um, you know, I just sort of think that that’s the way it went. And that was the end of that.
JAMES O’BRIEN: How does Joh spend his time now?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, he spends a lot of his time down in Tasmania, actually in Tasmania. Yes. it’s a bit of a change from Queensland.
JAMES O’BRIEN: It’d be colder.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Yes, certainly has been. There’s no doubt about that. But he’s in partnership with Peter Murray then he’s the president of Murray Corp. That’s. They’re into us. What do they call it? Venture capital management. And um, and, uh, you know, trust, trust business like that. And, uh, this is what he’s on about. And they’ve they’re doing a lot of work, but it takes quite a deal of time to get, you know, things financially stable because we ended up after the court case up in Queensland with a tremendous amount of debt. And that’s something that we’re working hard and looking at and trying to get things settled again. It’s not very easy.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Is that what is keeping you in politics, or is there a temptation to go to retirement as well?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: I’m going to retirement in June next year, so there’s nothing much more I can do about that. But, uh, I certainly, you know, believe that, uh, it’s been very sad sort of happening, really, where, uh, you serve your state. He served his electorate for forty one years, and he served the state of Queensland for almost twenty years. And what do you what thanks. Do you get a tremendous debt as a result of it with legal expenses? He had the opportunity at one stage, the labor people and the liberal people said to him, well, look, Joe, we want to alter the the Superannuation Act. You weren’t in it. Why don’t you get in it? And of course, he said, um, one of the labor fella said, well, look, you owe it to Florence and your family to get in it. And I, when he came home and told me that, I said my word. That’s exactly right, Joe. And you never believe it. He said no. He said if it was wrong in the first instance, if they were lining their pockets too much in the first instance, they’re still lining their pockets too much and I can’t do it. Oh, dear. I don’t often disagree with Joe, but I didn’t think he had too much political nous at that particular time.
JAMES O’BRIEN: What? What about his own retirement? I mean, he’s got this business venture going on at the moment. Does he also have lots of free time?
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Oh, well, he doesn’t have as much free time as I’d like him to have, really, but I’m living in hopes that he might have a little bit more time at home the week after next, because I’m having grandchildren come to stay for a week, and I think it’d be rather nice to have him around the place to lend a helping hand.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Doing doing what sort of things around the place, looking after.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Oh well. Taking the children up. When he goes and feeds his birds, he feeds his birds and and looks after the ones around at home. And then feeds his possums, and and that goes and cuts wood for his daughter and all the rest of it. So it’s just having having him around the place and it’s lovely. And I do believe that when you’re eighty two, almost eighty two, you deserve to have a bit of time to yourself. Although I still believe, James, that you don’t want to retire and do nothing. This is what I’m considering when I get out. Um, Grant Tambling asked me. One of our senatorial colleagues from the Northern Territory asked me what was I going to do when I got out of Parliament. And I said, well, I’m certainly hoping that I’ll find plenty of voluntary work to do. What sort.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Of.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Things? Oh, well, the meals on wheels. Um, there’s a tourist. Um, we have a tourist tourism section at Kingaroy and, uh, encouraging tourists. And, uh, I saw in the paper just recently that they wanted somebody to do, uh, a half a day a month. And I thought, oh, good. I think tourists might be quite interested to find that Senator Flo’s there or ex-Senator Flo’s there show telling them all about Kingaroy. And, uh, I think that those are some of the things that you can do. And we have a little Lutheran school, and I believe that there will be plenty of voluntary work to do there. I want something that I can keep my brain active with because otherwise, I mean, you rusticate, and I don’t think that’s very good for you.
JAMES O’BRIEN: What about the cookbooks? More of those on the way.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Well, yes, there are some. Oh, I don’t know about a second one. We’re looking at one. A health cookbook. But anyway, that’s in the future because I haven’t got any time to look at it at the moment, with the election coming up and the need there is to make sure that our parties get into government after this next election. I think I’ve just got to concentrate on that. But I must say, as far as the original cookbook is concerned, the first print you know was sold out. Then they decided they’d have a reprint. I didn’t think they reprinted enough. They reprinted another three thousand. They’ve all gone. Now we’re waiting for the next reprint. So I’m very grateful to the people who have bought the book and seems to have gone over quite well.
JAMES O’BRIEN: I recall the original pumpkin scone recipe having grown up in northern New South Wales and lived in Queensland for quite some time, was on postcards. It was on tea towels.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Yes, it still is, as a matter of fact. I don’t know about the postcards so much, but I know that the little peanut van in Kingaroy still has them. And certainly she sells tea towels. And I think that this is something that, uh, you know, sort of been very worthwhile. But the cookery book, you know, people are interested in it. And there’s one I don’t know whether you’ve got enough time to listen to this. There’s one quite interesting story in the cookery book about my pumpkin scone diplomacy.
JAMES O’BRIEN: No.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Oh, you haven’t heard about that? Well, it was in nineteen eighty three election, actually, uh, that’s getting on for ten years ago now, isn’t it? Nine years ago, and they had a strike on the mine outside Ipswich, and three mines actually involved, I think, at the time.
JAMES O’BRIEN: And I recall this.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Can you remember? Yes. And do you remember how I, uh, they wanted Joe to go down the mine and talk to them? And Joe said, no, if you want to talk to me, come and see me. And then this jolly John Roberts, I think his name was, uh, put out a thing in the paper that said that it wasn’t Joe that was going to go down the mine. Flo was. So I thought, which is the best way to a man’s heart is through his stomach. So I made a batch of pumpkin scones, wrapped them in a pumpkin scone tea towel, and took them down the mine. And, um, I was, you know, sort of a bit scared about it. I’d never been down a mine before. But anyway, it was easy enough, and I went down there and sat, and the mine is a bit cool at first, but then it warmed up and I gave them the scones and they ate them up. And then they said, well, look, it wasn’t really you we wanted to see. It was the premier. And I said, oh yes, well, that might be so, but I think you should go and meet him, not him. Come down here to you. So I made an arrangement to meet him at the coalface, and and I went back to Joe and I said, Now I’ve done my bit. You do yours. And so he went and met them there. And I always say, and where did they end up? Down the mine, Joe, talking to the miners. Down the mine. And they did solve the problem because I think he arranged, you know, they discussed it in a government level, and they decided that they would offer them another three years work there. And then in the meantime, they sort of gradually got them absorbed in the open cut mines further up Queensland. And I guess all’s well that ends well. And that’s what you call pumpkin scone diplomacy.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Perhaps. In conclusion, then you might go through that recipe, the famous recipe.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Oh, I certainly will, no doubt about that. It’s a nice one. I’ve been writing it out for so long that there’s no possibility of forgetting it. You need a tablespoonful of butter, a half a cup of sugar, and a quarter of a teaspoonful of salt, which I put in a mixmaster and small a small basin and beat it up. And then you add an egg, and then you add a cup of mashed pumpkin, which is cold, not hot. I had one friend who told me that she ruined the recipe by using hot pumpkin. And then, uh, after that you stop using the mixmaster and fold in by hand two to two and a quarter cups of self-raising flour. And the amount of flour depends on what type of pumpkin you’ve got, whether you’ve got a moist one or one that’s not quite so moist. And then you turn it out onto a floured board, cut them and put them into a very hot oven for. What is it? Two twenty five to two fifty centigrade, or four twenty five to four fifty Fahrenheit, and in fifteen to twenty minutes you should have a batch of lovely hot pumpkin scones. And everybody will love you if you bring them out. And they’re nice and enjoyable. And if you if you think there’s too many just for a small family, put half of them into our foil and put them in the freezer. Heat them up the next day and you’ve still got nice hot pumpkin scones.
JAMES O’BRIEN: Thanks very much.
FLO BJELKE-PETERSEN: Thank you James.