John Hoare and Elizabeth Love

John Hoare came originally from County Wexford, Ireland although the exact details of his birth-date and birth-place remain unconfirmed.

Wexford is located in the south-east region of Ireland, in the province of Leinster. The county’s role in Irish indepedence, especially the 1798 uprising, is celebrated and preserved. This is significant, because John Hoare was known as one of the “United Irishmen”.

According to researcher, Graham Lewis, John Hoare enlisted in the Royal Navy at the Port of London on September 7, 1795. Initially he was on HMS Royal William, and soon afterwards HMS Impregnable. He moved to the HMS Defiance in 1796. On board the HMS Defiance Hoare was one of a number of people found guilty of their involvement in a naval mutiny. The trial was held September 8 to 14, 1798 with the trial records held by the UK Public Records Office PRO ADM 1/5347. I am currently seeking these records, though would appreciate if anyone may already have a copy they are willing to share.

In the meantime, the Report of Committee of Secrecy of the House of Commons: Ordered to be printed 15th March, 1799 (available as a Google eBook) provides some information about the court martial held on board The Gladiator and The Cambridge. Apologies, I’ve yet to clean up the text….changing the f’s to s’ and generally making it readable.

ABSTRACT of Proceedings at a Court Martial on Board His Majesty’s Ship Gladiator in Portsmouth Harbour between the 14 and 16 of September 1798 Sunday excefted Captain JOIIM HOLLOWAY President who with Seven other Captains composed the Court. This Court was assembled for the trial of John Brady, William Lindsay, John Hopkins, James Moor, Chistopher Mahane, Terence Dunn, Thomas Jourdaine, James Cannon, David Keed, 1 homac Derbyfhire, Nicholas Ryan, Cornelius Callaghan, Owen McCartey, Richard Kennedy, Thomas LufEn, Patnck Dcvoy, John Uonally, Peter McGuire, John Hoare, Edward Swinney, Patrick Hynes, Michael Foy, Michael Kelly and Edward M Laughlin seamen and James Lawlers private marine belonging to his Majesty’s ship Defiance Captain Theophilus Jones for having held mutinous afiemblies on board the laid ship at which an oath to the following purport was taken I swear to be true to the free and United Irishmen who are now fighting our cause against tyrants and oppressors, and to defend their rights to the last drops of my blood and to keep all secret, and I do agree to carry the ship into Brest the next time the ship looks out ahead at sea and to kill every officer and every man that shall hinder us, except the master and to hoist a green ensign with a harp on it and afterwards to kill and destroy all the Protestants. All the evidence clearly mewed the guilt of the prisoners in a greater or lesser degree and the court having heard what they had to offer in their defence parted lenience of death on Brady, Lindsay, Hopkins, Mahane, Dunn, Jourdaine, Cannon, Reed, Derbyfhire, Ryan, Callaghan, Kennedy, Laffin, Devoy, McGuire, Hoare, Swinney, Kelly and M Laughlin. But in confederation of some circumstances Hopkins, Mahane, Dunn, Jourdaine, Cannon, Devoy, McGuire, and Hoare were recommended by the court for mercy on condition of transportation amd Moor and Lawlefa were sentenced to receive 300 lashes each and one year’s solitary confinement in the Marmalfea. Mccartneyy and Foy were sentenced to receive 100 lashes each and six months solitary confinement. Hynes was sentenced to year’s solitary confinement and Donally was acquitted. APPENDIX No 20 91

Sorry if that was all a bit difficult to read. I’ll try and make it clearer.

There’s a brief mention of the incident in the “Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette” of Thursday 23 August 1798///

In the latter ship 45 United Irishmen are brought in irons for mutiny. The court martial on eight of the UNSURE crew will finish to-day.

Along with some other newspapers, The Derby Mercury of Thursday 20 Sep 1798 records the following….

On Saturday the trials of several sailors belonging to the Defiance for Mutiny and Sedition commenced on board the Gladiator, at Portsmouth. The following is the oath, the taking, and administering of which constitutes the substance of the charge against them : — “I swear to be true to the free and United Irishmen who are now fighting our cause against tyrants and despots, and to defend their rights to the last drops of my blood and to keep all secret, and I do agree to carry the ship into Brest the next time the ship looks out ahead at sea and to kill every officer and every man that shall hinder us, except the master and to hoist a green ensign with a harp on it and afterwards to kill and destroy all the Protestants

According to the historian, Patrick O’Farrell, there was a great deal of excitement about the arrival in Australia of these rebel convicts.

The 1798-1803 rebels were a colonial cynosure: their fellow Irish hero-worshiped them; the authorities feared them and exaggerated their numbers and influence”. He tempers this, though, by arguing “in a strictly nationalist sense, political rebels among the Irish convicts seem relatively few; about 1.5 percent, that is, less than 600 in the entire history of transportation, of whom nearly 500 arrived in the very early years of the colony, up to 1806”. “The most prominent rebels were often men of some previous substance, educated, high principled and quite often Protestants”. He also says, “These rebels took their land grants, conformed and prospered. They adopted a low public profile in response to their seditious reputations and devoted themselves to work, and those good lives.

John Hoare was imprisoned for a time on Norfolk Island under the harsh regime of Captain Foveaux between November 1802 and June 15, 1804. At that point, he was returned to NSW where he was placed on the Government Farm at Castle Hill which, just a few months earlier, had been the site of an unsuccessful uprising by mostly Irish convicts. At some point around this time, he began working as a labourer for John Llewellyn (who had come to Australia in the NSW Corps) on his Hawkesbury River property.

A few yeas later at St Phillip’s Church he married Elizabeth, the daughter of John and Martha Love on July 10, 1809 (V1809 881 3A). Born in Hampshire, England, Elizabeth Emelia Love came to Australia on the Third Fleet as an infant with her parents, John and Martha Love. She spent her early years at Sydney Cove (in the area around The Rocks) before, presumably, moving with her parents to the Field Of Mars where, presumably, she met John Hoare. In their first few years of marriage John and Elizabeth lived at the Field of Mars before moving to the Campbelltown Districts of Airds and Appin where they began to farm with the assistance of convict labour . The birth records of their children indicate John and Elizabeth continued to live in the area for quite some time.

By 1828, John and Elizabeth had increased their land holdings to 90 acres which was cleared and fully cultivated and they had eight cattle.

I am unaware, at this stage, how they came to spend their later years of their lives and to be buried at Dapto. A possible reason is that a few of their children married people in Wollongong, and so they may have spent their latter years closer to their younger children. Researcher, Kath Raulings mentions in a comment below she believes John Hore “had land at Illawarra and was granted a convict groom and farm servant. In 1839, both father and son had land at Dapto. See 1839 NSW Gov Gaz. pp.1353, 1378 and again in 1840 pp. 152, 171, 425 and 706. Some of these entries also relate to land in Murrumbidgee district (possibly Cumberoona) and at Camden. I have a feeling I remember seeing in one of the gazettes that there was some land transferred or given between the Hores and Rixons around Dapto. Hope this might help.”.

John died on April 25, 1862 (6420/1862), while Elizabeth died on March 3, 1878 (448/1878), although the NSW BDM spells her name Hore. They are buried together and the inscription on the headstone reads…

Sacred to the memory of Mr John Hore, a native of County Wexford Ireland, who departed this life, 25th April 1862, also of Elizabeth Hore, native of Hampshire England, died March 3rd 1878 aged 96 years.

According to Elizabeth’s newspaper obituary – supplied with thanks to Lesley Ford, which she also acknowledges was supplied by Jan Johnson, from an Illawarra Paper 18789 – Elizabeth spent a number of years after John’s death living in Sydney with her daughter Ann (then named Ann Phibbs), presumably at Ann’s place on Castlereagh Street (not far from what is now Central Station).

In the following issue of the 5th instant, a notice appeared, announcing the death of another lady, whose life had almost xxxxxx? a century, and whose connection with this district has been long and intimate. We allude to Mrs. John Hore, relict of the late Mr. John Hore, and mother of Mr. Charles Hore, of West Dapto. The deceased lady reached the great age of 96 years. Her residence in this colony, was about coeval with the history of its colonization, she being only ten years of age when she arrived in Port Jackson with her parents. She therefore constituted one of the population of Australia 86 years out of the 90 years of it’s existence as a British Territory. In her last days, few if any other persons in this or any of these colonies could say so much in this respect. She was one of the pioneers of Australian colonization in the true sense of the term, having whitnessed the rise of this great dependency of the British Empire from a state of absolute barbarism to its present proud and important position as a civilized community and unexampled field for enterprise.

Mrs. Hore resided many years in this district with her husband and a large family, of which Mr. Charles is the younger member. She survived her husband several years, however, and for some considerable time past she resided at Sydney with one of her daughters, Mrs. Phibbs. It was only latterly that her health, which hitherto had been of the most robust character, began to fail, and finally, on Sunday 7, the 3rd instant, her spirit passed away from it’s earthly tenement, which from sheer decay of nature, had become incapable of longer retaining it. Her remains were brought per steamer, on the following Monday evening, and on being landed at Wollongong were conveyed to St. Francis Xaviers Church, where, in the absence of ther Rev. Dean Flanagan, the Rev. P O’Reilly of Dapto, performed the usual ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church on such occasions. In the forenoon of the same day, the funeral cortege proceeded to the Catholic cemetery, West Dapto, where the remains were deposited with the sacred dust of some of the relatives of the deceased who had gone before. The Rev. P O’Reilly officiated on this occasion also, and the mourners included friends of the deceased from Sydney, in addition to Mr. Charles Hore, and several members of his family.

Elizabeth’s death was also reported in the Sydney Morning Herald on Thursday 14 September 1882…

HORE – March 8, at the residence of her daughter, Mrs Ann Phibbs, Elizabeth, mother of John Hore, Esq, Melbourne, aged 96.

The other members of the Hore/Hoare family buried at West Dapto, according to this site are.

Hore, Charles Patrick, d. 14 Feb 1900, age: 1year 10mths, Beloved s/o Charles & Clara Hore Accidently Drowned, Sec. Old Grave Yard, #15
Hore, Charles, b. 1869, d. 24 Nov 1931, age: 62years, Our Lady of Perpetual Help Pray For Him Also Our Dear Mother, Sec. Old Grave Yard, #16
Hore, Clara Bridget, b. 1881, d. 2? Nov 1961, age: 80years Our Dear Mother, Sec. Old Grave Yard, #17
Hore, Elizabeth Agnes, b. 1875, d. 06 Oct 1944, age: 69years, Beloved w/o William, Sec. Sth Row C, #3
Hore, Elizabeth, b. 1782 Hampshire England, d. 3 Mar 1878, age: 96years Sec. Old Grave Yard, #118
Hore, John, b. Wexford, Ireland, d. 25 Apr 1862, age: 8?Years Sec. Old Grave Yard, #117
Hore, Margaret, b. Co. Limerick Ireland, d. 4 Mar 1908, age: 79years Sec. Old Grave Yard, #128
Hore, William A, b. 1901, d. 16 Feb 1955, age: 54years, 2572 Private 14 Australian General Hospital. Beloved, s/o The Late Charles & Mrs C.B. Hore of Shellharbour, Sec. Sth Row F, #10
Hore, William, b. 1866, d. 21 Jun 1956, age: 90years Sec. Sth Row C, #4

Children

* Ann Hoare was born on 9 May 1810 at Airds, NSW. Aged only fourteen, she married William Rixon, the eldest son of convicts James Rixon and Amelia Goodwin on 23rd January 1826 in St Peter’s Campbelltown. In their first few years of marriage William and Ann lived at the Field of Mars before moving to the Campbelltown Districts of Airds and Appin where they began to farm with the assistance of convict labour. Around the time of the birth of their daughter Sarah in November 1839, William and Ann moved to Spring Creek where they managed “The Stringy Bark Inn” a property owned by William’s brother, Benjamin. William also had other hotel interests in the area. William Rixon died on May 28, 1847 (V1847827 32B/1847) at Campbelltown. After William’s death, Ann married twice more. On June 11, 1848, she married Owen Dunlaghan who died in January 1851. A year later, on January 24, 1852, Ann married William Henry Phibbs with whom she had one child, William Jordan Phibbs. William Henry Phibbs died on November 24, 1863. In 1882, Ann lived at 362 Castlereagh Street, Sydney on the east side between Goulburn and Campbell Street. Ann died at 9 Denison St Woollahra, Sydney on August 8, 1895 and is buried at the Roman Catholic Cemetery, Waverly. Had she lived a little longer, she would have inherited one thousands pounds from her younger brother, as she was named in his will. TO my sister Ann Phibbs widow of William Jordan Phibbs the sum of one thousand pounds but if my said sister shall predecease me I BEQUEATH the said sum of one thousand pounds to her son William Jordan Phibbs TO my nephew the said William Jordan Phibbs the sum of one thousand pounds. Please see the biography page of William and Ann for more information about their lives.

* John Hoare was born 17 September 1813. He married Elizabeth Waite at All Saints Church, Sutton Forest on 1st January, 1839. According to researcher, Judy Roberts John Hoare Junior was advised by Hamilton Hume whose property was at Lake George, as to where some of the best farming lands were to be had along the route he had already taken, with the result that these two men set off to acquire land for themselves. John Waite, after travelling south by bullock wagon for six months with some younger women riding on horseback, formed the Bungil run in 1836 for his daughter Elizabeth and son-in law, John Hore jnr, who then swapped it in 1838 with Spalding and Cobham for the Wagra (now Wymah) run on the opposite side of the river, being the stream that had been named the Hume River and later changed to the Murray River. John Hore jnr, besides holding the Wagra licence in 1840, purchased the Talgarno lease in 1848, the Turramia lease in 1848 and the Bethanga lease in 1855. By the time he bought Cumberoona on the north bank of the Murray River opposite Talgarno in 1859 for 12,000 pounds he had a very valuable pastoral empire in the Upper Murray. About 1870 he sold Talgarno, Bethanga and Turramia and confined his attention to Cumberoona. . Elizabeth died at Ellerslie, East St Kilda, Melbourne on February 6, 1895. John died later that same year on 15th October 1895 at St Kilda. Thanks to Judy, you can also download his will. Photograph courtesy Kellie Jones. Thanks also to Kellie for photographs of the joint gravesite of John and Elizabeh Hore, as well as the individual graves of Elizabeth Hore and John Hore.

* Elizabeth Hoare was born 18 April 1815 at Airds NSW. She married James Rixon, the son of James Rixon and Amelia Goodwin at St Peter’s, Campbelltown on 27th August 1833. The birth records for their children indicate that sometime between 1834 and 1838, Elizabeth and James moved from Airds to Taylor’s Flat, now known as Cathcart in the Towamba Valley area of S.E. NSW. I am unaware of the reason why, though, presumably they were granted some land. As noted by Jack Burgess, James Rixon went on to became a hotelier at Eden, the first hotel in Eden, and the very early hotel licensee in Bega. He was the first of the family to come to the family hotel, (the museum) when it was known as Rixons Family Hotel. As noted by Terry Hore on his website John and Elizabeth had a very large family. James Rixon died at Bega on September 12, 1873 (3335/1873). Elizabeth died at Sydney on September 13, 1882 (2069/1882).

* Martha Hoare was born about 1817 at Cowpastures, NSW. She married John Robinson on 13th May 1833 at St Peters, Campbelltown, NSW. John Robinson was born on April 22, 1798 in Sydney. The birth records for their children indicate the transitory nature of their lives over the next ten years or so, with children born at Dapto (1838), Greenland near Nimmitabel (1843), Nudgee, near Cape Howe (1847), Narraburraba (1850), Twofold Bay (1852), before they finally settled at Honeysuckle, near Wyndham NSW. The first 52 acres of land on the Honeysuckle Flats was purchased by John Robinson in 1853, after recognising the potential of the land for farming. (Reference: Wyndham Celebrates). The Monaro Pioneers website records a great deal of information about them and their children. John Robinson died June 8 1960 at Honeysuckle and was buried June 11 at Eden NSW. Three years later, Martha married Adam Lewis on April 20, 1863 at Pambula, NSW. Martha died on July 29, 1873 at “Honeysuckle” amd was buried at Eden on August 3, 1873. The cause of her death was Death due to Decay of Nature 19 months. Informant Adam Lewis 2nd husband.

* Andrew Hore was born at Airds on 25 May 1820. He married Jessie Finlayson at Yass, NSW in 1845. He died on 17th April 1890 at Mugwee, Albury, NSW. Photograph with thanks to Kellie Jones. You can also view Andrew Hore’s headstone and Jessie Hore’s headstone.

* Sarah Hoare was born about 1821 at Minto, NSW. She married James Seymour on June 15, 1840 at St Francis Xavier, Catholic Church ,Wollongong, NSW, Australia. The website of fellow researcher, Terry Hore documents the children of Sarah and James. The birth records for their children indicate they mostly lived in the Illawarra district, with children born at Dapto (1841) Shellharbour (1849) Sydney (1854) and Shellharbour (1855). Sarah died in 1862 (3893/1862) at Kiama, probably in childbirth as the BDM records the birth of their child, Joseph at Kiama in 1862 (8432/1862). Interestingly, the death record for Sarah indicates her mother Elizabeth Love/Hoare may have been known as Betsy, a common shortening of the name. A year after Sarah’s death, on June 18, 1863 (482/1863) James married Ellen (Elizabeth?) Condle (widow) at the Presbyterian Church, Elizabeth Street, Sydney. James Seymour died at Shellharbour on February 15, 1867.

* William Hoare was born on 26 February 1824 at Minto, NSW. He married Rebecca Margaret Seymour (Margaret Gralis) at St Francis Xavier, Wollongong on 14th February 1848. He died on 28th May 1890 at Wagra. Margaret’s headstone can be seen here

* Mary Hoare was born 10 July 1826 at Glenlee, Menangle, NSW. She married Michael O’Loughlan (Born Cavan, Ireland) on 7th January 1845 at St Bedes, Appin, NSW. She died on 5th March 1893 at Appin.

* Thomas Hoare was born 29 August 1831 at Airds, NSW. Recorded as “Thomas Hoere”, he married Catherine Ann Bergin (born in Ireland in about 1830) at St John’s Roman Catholic, Campbelltown, NSW on February 12, 1854 (V185316 99/1853). The birth records for their children indicate they lived in Marrickville (1855) and Wollongong (1857) before settling in Albury (1858). Thomas died on 5th September 1880 at Table Top, Albury, NSW.

* Eliza Hoare was born 1833 at Airds, NSW. She married Sampson Courtney Boyland on 12th February 1853 at Wollongong, NSW. I am unaware at this stage about where their eldest daughter, Elizabeth A (V18531842 121A/1853) was born in 1853, however the BDM records confirm their sons John (6465/1857) Courtney (7190/1859) and daughter, Isabella J (7282/1861) were all born at Eden. According to researcher, Kev Spink (see comments below), “Sampson arrived as a Bounty Immigrant from Co Antrim, Ireland on board the ship ‘Arthur’ arriving in Sydney in 1841. He died in March 1861 (2877/1861) after a two year struggle with cancer.” Five years later, she married Robert Redshaw on 23rd April 1866. Eliza died at Bega in 1893 (3249/1893).

* Charles Joseph Hoare was born on 4 July 1837 at Airds, NSW. He married Margaret Noonan at St Francis Xavier, Wollongong on 25th June 1855. The birth records for their children indicate they lived in Wollongong for most (if not all) of their married lives. It’s also likely, it was with Charles and Margaret that his parents lived in near proximity for quite some time, after they moved to the district. As researcher, Kath Raulings aluded to the Hoare Family had significant land holdings in the area. Chales was mentioned in the will of his brother, John and granted significant land holdings in the Camden district trust, In trust for my brother Charles Hore and his assigns during the term of his natural life without impeachment of waste AND from and after the decease either in my lifetime or afterwards of my said brother Charles Hore TO HOLD the same in trust for his son Andrew Hore absolutely for ever. Charles died at Moonee Ponds, Melbourne, Victoria on 12th March 1905.

Reference

* The note that 20 people on board the HMS Defiance were sentenced to hang is from “Lincoln P. Paine’s SHIPS OF THE WORLD: AN HISTORICAL HISTORICAL ENCYCLOPEDIA” (page 48). There is also a reference to this oath on p278 of “The Language of Liberty, 1660-1832: Political Discourse and Social Dynamics” By J. C. D. Clark, Published 1994 by Cambridge University Press.

* The reported oath was mentioned in the “Report of the Committee of the Secrecy of the House of Commons” ordered to be printed 15th March 1799, London 1799 (pp 72-73)

* Information about the significance of the of Irish rebels in Australia from “The Irish In Australia” by Patrick O’Farrell, University of NSW Press 1986.

* His presence on Norfolk Island is confirmed in the microfilm “The People of Norfolk Island and Van Diemen’s Land 1788-1820 and their families” by James Hugh Donohoe. He returned to NSW in 1804.

*Curiously enough, John did not receive his Certificate of Emancipation until July 15, 1811 .

The 1828 NSW Census lists John Hoare aged 50 Convict on Canada FS Settler at Airds and Elizabeth born colony aged 37. Canada (1) arrived in 1801
Children to this couple
John age 15
Elizabeth age 14
Martha age 12
Andrew age 9
Sarah aged 7
WIlliam age 5
Mary age 3

Colonial Secretary’s Papers:

HOARE, John. Of Field of Mars
1811 Jul 30 : On list of persons to receive lands in the new Districts of Airds or Appin, & in other parts of the Colony; at Airds or Appin (Fiche 3266; 9/2652 p.10)

HOARE, John (Senior). Per “Canada”, 1801
1822 Jul 23: Of Lower Minto. Recommending William Ford, his assigned servant (Reel 6055; 4/1761 p.58)
1823 : Memorial (Fiche 3047; 4/1830 No.168). Reply, 6 Jun (Reel 6010; 4/3508 p.454)
1824 Sep 20: On account of wheat & maize in the possession of settlers in the Districts of Upper & Lower Minto (Reel 6061; 4/1780 p.286)

HOARE, John (Junior). Born in the Colony; son of John Hoare of Upper Minto
1823 : Memorial (Fiche 3047; 4/1830 No.169). Reply, 18 Jul (Reel 6010; 4/3508 p.679)

Notes

* The exact date and place of John Hoare’s birthplace remains unconfirmed. I recently heard from researcher, Graham Lewis who notes…

I did spend several hours in the sacristy of the big old church in Wexford Town, and also consulted several professional genealogists there for advice on further research. Basically, they could suggest no further research avenue. I had discovered just one possibility in the parish registers – which are perhaps the oldest and best preserved in all Ireland – a 1775 baptism, but not a John – a saint’s name instead, which escapes me at the moment. I was inclined to be rather dismissive of that, but the genealogists thought it could be our John – that the church would have been a Franciscan Priory in 1775 and the Franciscans were very keen on baptising in saints’ names, but these were often never used in practice by those so named! I’m still not convinced – I felt that John would likely have named one or other of his sons in similar fashion if that had been the case, and he hadn’t. So I think all that can be said is that he was recorded as John Hoare, 22, from Wexford (the latter entered in a column headed “Place and County Where Born”), when he enlisted at the Port of London, on 5 September 1795. It looks like he was enlisted on HMS Royal William that day and joined HMS Impregnable on 15 September. He moved to the HMS Defiance in August 1796.

Acknowledgements

* Thanks to Terry Hore for documenting the children of John and Elizabeth on his website.

* Marion Starr has a terrific book about Early settlers in the Cowpastures area called, “Murder, Mayhem & Misdemeanours” which contains information about John and Elizabeth. Cost is $30 plus $6 postage within Australia. Payment can be made by direct bank transfer or by cheque. Your copy will be sent as soon as payment is approved. To order your copy please contact Marion twinks@ozemail.com.au

* Thanks to Judy Roberts for the information about John Hore Junior, including his will.

* Thanks to Kellie Jones for sharing some of the wonderful photographs, including the headstones.

Sharing Around: Please feel free to copy any of the information on this page which may help you in your own research. My feeling is that family research is hard enough, without the need to constantly re-invent the wheel. It would be great, however, if you’d leave a comment below just to say “hi”.

128 thoughts on “John Hoare and Elizabeth Love

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  1. What a fantastic website, thankyou so much. I came across it quite by accident, and am very excited that I did. I am descended from Andrew Hore, son of John and Elizabeth Hore. I have only been researching my Hore family for a couple of months now, and have also been in contact with Terry Hore. I am amazed at the generosity of people like you and Terry for sharing all of this wonderful history with us. Thankyou.

  2. Hi Kellie, great to hear from you. And thank you for your very kind comments. The way I figure it, I think if you can put out as much information as possible you’ll go some way to finding the truth a little more easily and when you’ve got something wrong, people will correct you. The co-incidences you find are also very interesting. For example, through research I actually discovered a former manager of mine and I were both descended from John and Elizabeth, also. I hope your research goes well. James

  3. Hi James,
    I belong to the Rixon chain and have a lot of bits’n pieces on the Hoare/Hore family that you may be interested in or, already have.
    Thank you for your unselfish contribution as it all goes a long way to collecting a much bigger picture. I have a copy of John’s will if you are interested

  4. Hi Judy,

    Thank you for your lovely comment and post. And thankyou for the kind offer about John’s will and other Hore/Hoare family information or documentation. I hope you don’t mind if I use that info on the site, just to expand the knowledge base out there.

    Unfortunately, it seems no one has responded to your earlier comment about the sudden nature of James Rixon’s death. Hopefully someone will eventually provide some evidence either. way.

    Cheers

    James

  5. Thanks James for all your hard work and research. It’s really helpful. Re your comment above that you were unaware of why the Hore’s were at Dapto. I’ve been researching the Hore family along with other related families and their land holdings. You may like to look up the NSW Government Gazettes for 1834, John Hore I believe had land at Illawarra and was granted a convict groom and farm servant. In 1839, both father and son had land at Dapto. See 1839 NSW Gov Gaz. pp.1353, 1378 and again in 1840 pp. 152, 171, 425 and 706. Some of these entries also relate to land in Murrumbidgee district (possibly Cumberoona) and at Camden. I have a feeling I remember seeing in one of the gazettes that there was some land transferred or given between the Hores and Rixons around Dapto. Hope this might help.

  6. hi james,
    love the site and all the information. I too am a descendant of john hore via son william. His son also william inherited a property at wymah of which most of the children including my grandfather were born.
    Your site has certainly filled in a few gaps. The family often talks about the fact that the Murray Grey breed of cattle was developed by the Hore’s on this property. Quite interesting. Thankyou.

  7. Hi James,
    I just read Stella’s entry and am interested in contacting her about William and his family. I am descended from Andrew, his family were also from Wymah. Are you able to pass on my email address to her? Also thankyou for putting John Hore’s Will on your site. Interesting!
    Many thanks.
    Kellie

  8. Hi Stella – I apologise that I haven’t responded properly yet. Unfortunately for me, APEC has meant more work, not less. I will respond properly over the weekend.

    Hi Kellie – I have forwarded your details. The will is with many thanks to Judy who has also sent through some further information which I will have a proper look through over the weekend.

  9. Hi James, Loved reading about John Hoare. As a newbie to genealogy I think John Hoare is the 5th generation in our family. My late father was Noel Andrew Thomas
    Hore,his father Harold Edgar Hore, then Andrew Jnr Hore, then Andrew Hoare(Hore).

    I would love to hear if anyone has compiled the family tree for the Hore Family.

    Kind Regards,
    Sandra

  10. James,
    Thanks for providing this site allowing us to all share information.

    Over recent months I have had descendants from 7 of the children of John Hoare/Hore & Elizabeth Love contact me via my Web-Site, so there is a lot of interest in the family.

    Maybe we should be considering a family get-to-gether some time in the future or creating one total database of Hore descendants?

    Regards to all,
    Terry Hore

  11. Hi James,
    Thankyou for passing on my email to Stella, she has contacted me. This site is becoming a real chat line isn’t it? I think Terry’s idea is a great idea. Reading Sandra’s email makes me think that we are also from the same line of family. (Andrew’s line) I would love to talk to her about this. How do we go about creating something like this without clogging up your great site?
    Kind Regards
    Kellie

  12. Fantastic idea about trying to establish the definitive Hoare/Love family tree from both Kellie and Terry and maybe the anniversary of their wedding is a date to aim for as the start of the family? Glad Kellie that you were able to get in touch with Stella. Thanks for your concern about this site Kellie getting a little top-heavy with comments.

    I suspect a wiki is probably the best way of collaborating on a family tree, though I’ve yet to see a wiki program eg: pbwiki that allows for open comments and people can just contribute to without logging in. We need something like wikipedia, I suspect where people can just write their information and can make changes, corrections etc. This might be the solution perhaps?

    http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/John_Hoare

    With all the inherent risks of Wikipedia, anyone can go in and edit information, but by the same token you can end up with a good collaborative effort.

    However the good thing about wordpress is that it usually ends up very high in google search, so maybe it’s just establishing another wordpress blog that everyone can contribute to and can have comments from people? I could always establish a separate Hoare family page as another option?

    i’m not sure what the answer is at the moment, but will endeavour to find something.

  13. James,
    I really like the idea of celebrating the 200th anniversary of John Hoare/Hore& Elizabeth Love’s marriage as some form of family get-together. Two years time would be good I feel.

    The suggestion has been made to me by Bernard and Andrew Hore that maybe the descendants should consider adding another plaque at the grave showing what is already on the grave (but fading) together with additional info about them.

    There are almost 6,000 Australian Hoare/Hore family members on the database I hold and I don’t always agree with other researchers info on the “Net”. We need to sort out any such discrepancies somehow as some people tend to take info for granted without checking it.

    My Web-Site only shows my direct ancestors and their siblings or it would be huge and my main research is into my mother’s Smith-Gray lines as nobody else is doing that. At least I’m able to put anybody who contacts me about other family names in touch with others working on the same lines.

    Terry

  14. Hi James,

    Congradulations on such a great site. I come down through convict John’s son Andrew’s line, and live near the Murry river where the properties of “Cumberoona” and “Mugwee” are located. Its great to find so much information about the family out there and to meet up with so many realitives.

    Keep up the good work,

    Cheers,
    Andrew Hore

    1. Hi Andrew, I am also a descendant of Andrew. Also my grandfather was also Andrew Hore. He lived at Bowen Villa Wymah opposite the school. My mother Ella died last year aged 101 years. I hadn’t heard of you before. Where do you fit in? Hope you get this even though this an old site.Ilive in Mudgee but am often in Sydney.

  15. Hi James,

    I love this site. My late Grandfather Harold Edgar Hore
    was born at Cumberoona 9/1/1886.

    Keep up the good work.

    Regards,
    Sandra

  16. Has anybody found a Joe Hore (born in 1887) mentioned anywhere they cannot fit into a Hore family? I’m hoping he shows up in an old Hore family photo somewhere as we don’t have a photo of him at all in his younger days.

    My grandfather Joseph Killalea was born at Dapto, NSW only days after his father died and his mother passed away when he was only 4-5 months old. His real parents were John Killalea & Ann Seymour. He was supposedly raised in the Albury area and probably with a member of his mother’s Seymour family connected to the Hore’s. He was known as Joe Hore all his life and his 3 children were registered as Hore.

    Hopefully somebody can help solve the mystery as to which Hore family raised Joe.

    Regards,
    Terry (I should be a Killalea but also descend from Sarah Hoare/Hore).

  17. It was great to hear from you Andrew and Sandra. As I just explained to Terry in an email

    “I’m quite amazed by the response putting up my genealogical information has had. I have had a personal diary online for a number of years with a small group of people commenting, but it’s mostly been a creative writing exercise. And then, a few months ago, I decided to put up all the information I had because I think it’s really important to share, and because I think we’ll all solve the problems more quickly if we share, and the response has been terrific. I’m quite overwhelmed”

  18. I am a desendant of John and Elzabeth through their daughter Mary along the female line of descent. I am very interested in helping to celebrate the anniversary in 2008.

  19. Thank you for all the info that you have provide on my ancerstry apparently the name Love goes back to 400 as.
    My son Ralph Love is also onto your site and has helped me a lot.Keep up the good work

  20. Jann – Hello Jann. Looks like there’s a good groundswell of people willing to give it a go.

    Lionel – Thank you very much for your kind comments on my website. Hello also to your son Ralph. I had boxes full of stuff just sitting at home and so I am glad putting the information out there has been useful to others. Hopefully other people who have been doing researching will come across the site and contribute information too.

    1. James
      hi thank you very much im from the micheal & mary Oloughlan (hore)family
      i was tracing my family by microish in the library for a year and got burnt out just names but now since my dad has started up the serch again and reading all your facinating blogs u have re kindled the pasion
      thankyou you have given them all life again

      from
      shell

  21. To try and help put the Hoare/Hore family tree together I have added all I know of the first 3 generation here in Australia to my Web-Site.

    http://members.net-tech.com.au/~thore/hoarejohn.htm

    A large amount of this information was gathered over the years by Leanne Kellalea in her efforts to try and find out who raised my grandfather Joseph Killalea (grandson of Sarah Hoare). “Thanks – Leanne”

    Although Leanne has not been able to completely solve the Joseph Killalea mystery, her efforts are really appreciated as I feel we can use them to help put the Hoare/Hore tree together properly should a decision be made to hold a reunion in 2009.

    Please don’t hesitate to notify me of any alterations/mistakes (probably my typing errors mainly) or additions etc.

    Regards,
    Terry

  22. Hi James, Great idea of Terry’s to celebrate the 200th Anniversary of John
    Hoare/Hore and Elizabeth Love’s marriage.

    I would certainly be interested being a descendant of John Hoare.

    Regards,
    Sandra

  23. Hi James
    Re John Hoare, he was indeed a Royal Navy mutineer, but certainly nothing to do with the events you refer to. He was a minor player in an incident on board HMS Defiance in August 1798, when he and a group of other Irish seamen were heard to swear seditious oaths of allegiance to the United Irishmen. Some of them were heard to be plotting to take over the ship when it was next out to sea, murder the officers and English seamen, and carry it off to Brest, in the hope of persuading the French to join with them in throwing the English out of Ireland.
    Much of this plotting took place while on the grog, so it was not surprising that they were found out, clapped in the coal hole, taken back to Portsmouth, brought before a court martial, and the bulk of them (including John) sentenced to death, on 20 September 1798. The death sentences were carried out in Portsmouth a day or so later, with one of more hung before the crew of every ship in the harbour, as an “encouragement” to others to behave themselves!
    John was one of a few of the younger “bit players” who pleaded for mercy and had their sentences commuted to transportation. All the above is to be found in the surviving court martial papers. John rates just a couple of sentences of script in something over 100 pages.
    The events were also reported in the (London) Times, September 1798.
    John then spent about nine months on the Portsmouth prison hulks before joining the Canada for the 6-month trip to NSW with the others whose sentences had been commuted. They were joined by William Redfern, who I think was involved in the mutiny at the Nore, but I can’t swear to that. Redfern in Sydney is named after him of course.
    Kind regards
    Graham

  24. Hi James,Regarding Kellie’s letter dated September 10,2007.
    I would also like to get in touch with her in regards to Andrew
    Hore.
    Great site!
    Kind regards,
    Sandra

  25. Sandra – Details passed on and I believe you’ve been in contact.

    Lynette – lovely to hear from you. This is so great to have contact with so many people.

  26. Hi,

    Thanks you for all of the effort to which you have gone. My own research into John Hoare had not been very thorough, and I am grateful to be able to benefit from yours.

    I am descended from John Hoare and Elizabeth Love through their daughter Martha and her husband John Robinson.

    I have a few pictures that relate to Martha if you would like to see them.

    Should you obtain a copy of the trial transcript related to John Hoare’s trial I would be very keen to obtain a copy.

    Best regards,

    Ronald Robinson

    1. I too am descended from Martha and John Robinson, I would like to see any photos you have.

      Regards

      Billy SHAW

  27. Hi Ronald, thanks for your post. If you are willing to send through the photographs I would love to see them, and if you are happy to, to post one or two on this site. When I come across or obtain a copy of the trial transcript for John Hoare’s trial, I will definitely post it on the site. James

  28. I had another look through the family tree and shook a few branches.

    It seems that the Hoare/Hore and Robinson families were linked at least twice during the rearly years of the colony.

    Charles Robinson and Elizabeth Harris had three children: Mary, John, and Maria.

    1. John Robinson married Martha Hoare, the daughter of John Hoare and Elizabeth Harris.

    AND

    2. Mary Robinson married a chap called John Waite. You refer to John Waite in your research. Their daughter was the apparently inexhaustable Elizabeth Waite. Elizabeth Waite first married a chap called John Wright in 1834, however he died in 1837. Elizabeth next married John Hoare, son of John Hoare and Elizabeth Amelia Love, January 1, 1839 in All Saints Church of England, Sutton Forest, NSW. They had no children.

    …………………………………………………………………………………………………

    Death Notes: 1. JOHN2 HOARE (JOHN HONE GORE1) was born 17 September 1813 in Minto, New South Wales, Australia., and died 15 October 1895 in St. Kilda, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.. He married ELIZABETH WAITE 1 January 1839 in All Saints, Sutton Forest, New South Wales, Australia., daughter of JOHN WAITE and MARY ROBINSON. She was born 10 October 1812 in Glenfield, New South Wales, Australia., and died 6 February 1895 in “Ellerslie”, St. Kilda, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia..

    Notes for JOHN HOARE:
    (Info obtained has surname spelt HORE and HOARE).
    See Wymah Public School Centenary Booklet, Page 11.
    See Doomed Talgarno by W.H. Ferguson.

  29. Hi James
    Just came across your site. My husband is a descendant of Martha Hoare and John Robinson. Have been working on Twyford tree since 1999.

    Just checking my mail and googling for something else when your site came up. Will bookmark and enjoy reading it later.

    regards.
    Mary

  30. Hello James

    Thank you for producing such an excellent site. John and Elizabeth’s daughter Eliza is my wife’s Great Great Grandmother and as you correctly mention, married Sampson Courtney Boyland in 1853. Sampson arrived as a Bounty Immigrant from Co Antrim, Ireland on board the ship ‘Arthur’ arriving in Sydney in 1841. He died in March 1861 after a two year struggle with cancer. Eliza remarried to Robert Redshaw in 1866. I have a plethora of information on the Boyland family which I am more than willing to pass on to anyone who may be interested.

    Regards

    Kev

  31. Hi Kev, great ot hear from you. And thank you for the additional information you have provides about Eliza and Sampson Boyland. As it’s another line of research which I have not undertaken, I wonder if you might provide some further brief biographical information about her them, and whatever you know about Robert Redshaw, which I could add to the site (with proper attribution to your work), which might contain informations about them, their children, where they lived, where they died etc. I will promise to pass on to you any information that comes in from other interested researchers also, including any request for contact details. Cheers, James

    Thanks to Mary and Ronald for your comments too. I’m sorry I haven’t responded earlier, but the Christmas season has kept me busy and I’m only now returning to family history in earnest.

  32. Hello James/Kev,
    I too am a Boyland descendent, but not from the Sampson/Eliza marriage.
    My Boyland roots also come from Antrim in the form of Thomas Boyland, who sailed with Sampson as bounty emigrants in 1840. I have records showing that the ship was “Alfred” not Arthur a Kev advises.

    Thomas settled in Brisbane and made quite a name for himself as a Master Mariner captaining Paddle Steamers up the Brisbane and Bremer Rivers in the late 1840’s- 1850’s.

    Kev, if you have any info on Thomas I would more than grateful to compare notes.

    James – this is a great website with a wealth of information on the Hoare family connections. Well done!

    Cathy

  33. Hi Cathy,
    Great to hear from you and I’m glad the information I have here was useful. I’ve passed your details on to Kevin, so I hope you can work together on this.
    Cheers,
    James

  34. Hi Kathy, I’ve passed your info on to Terry Hore, since he’s doing such a great job in collecting all of the family information. My main research interests have been on my own ancestors, and more recently on their siblings to flesh out the stories a little more. I’m more a family historian at heart, as I love the stories about people. I hope you can find some common ground. James

  35. Hi James,

    Thanks for passing my details onto to Kev. He has already been in contact and provided some great details.
    Look forward to tracing the connection back even further now.

    Cheers

    Cathy

  36. Hi Terry,

    I believe Henry Hillier my Great Grandfather was born at Wagra Creek on the Hore property about 1842. Elizabeth Hillier was his mother’s name.
    I was wondering if anyone has information about Henry and Elizabeth. Henry lived with his wife Johanna Barclay at Wagra Creek, they had at least 3 children there, until they moved to Granya about 1875-1880.

    Frank

    1. I have been researching the Hillier line from England for over 20 yrs,and have came acroos your Henry & Joanna Barclay,I might just have some NEW info for you.
      My Hilliers arrived in Yass in 1844.
      Mark Hilier
      mob. 0412 142 132

      1. Hi Mark, I am Frank Kilpatrick’s cousin, and came across your response to Frank’s query re Henry Hillier. You allude to NEW information about Henry Hillier, and I was wondering if you would be willing to share this with me, as Frank is unwell at the moment and unable to follow up his research for a while. I have noted your mobile no. and will pass on to Frank, but am hesitant to call you directly without your consent. If you happen to see this, please confirm if ok for me to give you a call in relation to this.
        Gayle

      2. Hi Mark, I am the sister of Frank Kilpatrick. I believe Frank contacted you years ago regarding our Great Great Grandparents , Henry and Johanna Hillier. Would you mind if I contacted you regarding this matter as Frank has passed away and most of the Family history has gone with him.
        Hope this isn’t too much of a hassle.
        Cheers
        Catherine

  37. I am the granddaughter of William Robinson, the son of John Robinson & Sara Rixon, the son of John Robinson and Martha Hoare. We must be related and would loae to know how.
    Joyce.

  38. Hi James,
    Thanks so much for providing so much information free to everyone to copy. I am only new to researching and was thrilled to find your website. Thank you for sharing. I am a decendant of Sarah Hoare. My mothers grandmother was a Carbery.

    Regards
    Lynn:)

  39. Hi Lyn, I’m glad the information has been useful. It’s been great that so many people have been willing to share the information they;ve had, especially things like the will, photographs and obituary. It makes it so much easier for everyone I reckon.

    Joyce, thanks also for your post. My head goes a little ga-ga when trying to work out all of the connections. I’m sure Terry might be able to help out with an answer to that one.

    James

  40. My husband is related to the Love family.
    Do you have a copy of the Love Family Tree compiled by Betty Gill in Oct 1991?
    It lists all the Hoare family from Elizabeth Love.
    If you do not have a copy, please let me know.

  41. Hi Margaret, nice to hear from you. I haven’t seen the tree compiled by Betty Gill, but it would be interesting to see and to offer here to anyone who might wish to see it. Terry Hore might also be interested in seeing it, as he has developed a pretty extensive tree on his website too.
    http://members.datafast.net.au/thore/
    James

  42. Dear James,
    Have just found your site and have lots of information to share with the Hoare/Hore family, at a later date when I get it altogether.
    But, would like to make a comment about the Murray Grey Cattle that Stella Hore referred to in her e-Mail, the Breed was developed by the The Gadd Familly (Walwa-Vic) and the Sutherland Family (Walwa-Vic). The Murray Grey Society has a full history of the breed and how it was developed. All the best Janet m Drummond.

  43. Hi Janet, thank you for the information re: Murray Grey cattle, and I look forward to any further Hoare/Hore information you might have. Cheers, James

  44. Hi James,

    Fantastic site, I am really impressed. Do you happen to have any information on Jessie Fendelson? I am tracing her sister Catherine. Any clues would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards
    Di

  45. Hello Di, thanks for your comments. I don’t have any info personally on Jessie, but will happily pass on emails that come from through. Cheers, James

  46. Hi James,

    Have just read Di’s comments about Jessie and Catherine. I have a fair bit of information on Jessie and I am also trying to track down Catherine, so if you would like to pass on my email address to Di, that would be great.

    Thanks
    Kellie Jones

    1. Hi Kellie,I am related to John Hoare/eliz/Love then Robinson then Fyfe then Silvester.My wife is a Jones they lived in Wagga and Mittagong areas Thomas was Irish & M.Eliz Halloran son James M.Sarah Chalker/Charker son Edward M.Sarah Quinlivin son Edward M.Thelma Myers daughter Cheryl M.me Edward any connections with your Jones Regards TED

      1. Hi Ted,

        Jones is my married name, and I’m sorry but I don’t think there is a connection with our Jones families. Our Jones family came from Wales. I can understand if you have some frustration researching your Jones line, very common name.

        Goodluck
        Kellie

  47. Hi
    John Love was my G x 4 Grandfather. I decend from John & Elizabeth daughter Mary who married Michael O’Loughlan in 1845 at Appin. We had a small (about 100 of us) family reunion (O’Loughlan) at St Bede’s Church Appin in 1991, anniversary of Michael’s 200yr death.

    I researched the family history about 18 years ago and just last week decided to give it another go. I am amazed at how much info has been gathered about the family and the stories are fantastic. I have been inspired to get involved.

    The idea of a family reunion for the 200yr anniversary of Elizabeth and John’s July 1809 marriage is a great idea.

    I would love to see any of the photos that have been mentioned e.g. Elizabeth & Ann and John Hoare.

    Thanks for all the hard work

    Martina

  48. Hi,
    John Love was my gx4 grandfather as well and we then descend thro Elizabeth Hoare and James Rixon. Would like to make contact with any other close relations.
    Is there to be a reunion on 10/7/2009 if so count me in??
    Regards,
    Carolyn

  49. I have not looked at this page for a while so I missed seeing Martina Thompson’s message until now. I would like to get in touch with Martina as I am also a Mary Hoare descendant. Martina please email me jannoc (insert the usual thingo) and the dots that follow iprimus com au
    I am still hoping there will be a family get together on the 100th anniversay of John and Elizabeth’s marriage next year.

  50. Hi James,

    On the 2nd June I posted on your site congratulations and a request for any information on Catherine Fendelson, just after this my computor died and I have just replaced it. I noticed that Kellie Jones added a reply permitting you to pass on her email address to me. Poor Kellie probably thinks I am dreadfully rude not replying but circumstances have not permitted. Would it be at all possible for you to either pass on my email address to Kellie or to give me her address.

    Thankyou for your help
    Di

    1. Hi Di and James

      Kellie and I were working together on the Smith/Hoare/Hore/Rixon’s with another lady Kath, we have lots of info on them and have solved a few mysteries in the Rixon line too! I would love to hear from you.
      Regards
      Michelle

  51. Hi James,

    W0W, what an amazing amount of information you have in here. I am a decendant of John & Elizabeth Hoare through my late mother, who’s maiden name was Ruth Elizabeth Hore (1919-2007). Ruth Elizabeth was one of 12 children of Thomas Patrick Hore (1885-1953). His father was William Patrick Hore (1853-1926). His father was William Hoare (1824-1890). His parents were John Hoare & Elizabeth Amelia Love.

    This site has given me an amazing insight into my Hore/Hoare decendants, of which I knew very little before starting to research my family tree less than 2 years ago.

    I too would be very interested in a Hore/Hoare family reunion. I live in central Victoria.

    1. Hi don not sure if this goes through as it’s been 6 years I am related as your late mother Ruth is my grandfather Raymond sister, my father Is Michael

  52. Over recent weeks I have created an additional site for other information I have been holding on the Hore family which is now available at: http://sites.google.com/site/terrystangledfamilytree/hoare-hore

    My original site only contained details of my direct ancestors and their siblings but here you will find a lot more information, especially relating to the Hore families in the Albury area.

    I have also added all I have on the Seymour’s as there are so many confusing tangles between the Hore and Seymour lines this may also be of help to others: http://sites.google.com/site/terrystangledfamilytree/seymour

    Regards,
    Terry

  53. Hi all,
    Just wanted to say hi to Don Hewitt, we are cousins, I knew Aunty Ruth and Bob well but we never meet. I am the second daughter of Lionel, youngest brother to Ruth. Miss her she was a great lady.
    Stella

    1. Hi Stella I replied to Don as I have just seen this we are related as well as Aunty Ruth is my grandfather Raymond sister . His son Michael is my father

  54. Great to learn more about Ann Hoare (eldest daughter of John Hoare and Elizabeth Love). She is my great-great-grandmother and I sometimes visit her grave at Waverley Cemetery where she is buried with her daughter-in-law

    regards

    Jim Weeks

  55. Hello Jim, great to hear from you. I would love to go to the cemetery to take a photograph of her grave. Can you please give me a rough idea of where it is? It’s such a great cemetery, very beautiful. James

  56. Confusion!!! While surfing the web tonight, I came across an image on the Monaro Pioneers website for a gavesite for John and Elizabeth which looks totally different to the image I have. Can anyone please clarify? Are there, in fact, two memorials, or is there something wrong? Or is this Elizabeth Waite? Help!!! Can anyone clarify?

    http://www.monaropioneers.com/Love-john.htm

  57. James,
    The photo showing on the Monaro Pioneer site is John Hore & Eliz Waite.

    I have photos of both John Hoare & Eliz Love (Dapto West Catholic Cemetery) and John Hore & Eliz Waite’s (Albury Pioneer Cemetery) graves I have taken in recent years.

    Terry

    1. I too have the same photos. My name is Joy Kneale and I am the granddaughter of Rodger & Olga Hore from Wagga Wagga NSW.
      If you have any news/information you would like to share, I’d love to hear from you.
      Thank you
      Joy Kneale

  58. i was reading comments bout joe hore having three kids i know this is true one is my father and the others are my uncle and aunty

  59. Hi James,
    A big Thank You to Terry for the Hoare/Hore information which he has so kindly shared.

    Any news regarding the Hoare/Hore Family reunion?

    Regards,
    Sandy

  60. Hello there, I am the granddaughter of Rodger & Olga Hore who lived in Wagga Wagga NSW.
    We are interested in more information about the 200 anniversary of the wedding of the first Hore family in Australia which I believe is this coming July. What plans do you or anyone else have pls.
    I arranged a Hore/Davies family re-union in Wagga Wagga two years ago which was very successful. My dad has written a family book dating right back to the origin of the Hoare/Hore family and is very keen to have more information.
    Thank you for your time.
    Joy Kneale

  61. Hi James,

    I am so happy to have found your website!

    John and Martha Love are my gggg grandparents, through their daughter Elizabeth, whose daughter Mary married Michael O’Loughlan in 1845 at Appin.

    I would love to know if anything is being planned for the 200 year anniversary of the 1809 marriage of John Hore and Elizabeth?

    Also, if there are other descendants of Mary and Michael O’Loughlan, I would also love to know more about the O’Loughlans, especially those that went to Victoria. Any information at all would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you for so generously sharing all your research. It is SO interesting!

    Maria

    1. Hi Maria,
      I am a descendant of Mary and Michael O’Loughlan. They were my great-great grandparents. Their grand-daughter Myra Keating was my grandmother.

      regards
      John

      1. Hi John,
        I am descended from John Andrew O’Loughlan son of Mary and Michael O’Loughlan. John was my Grandmother’s father. I am researching the O’Loughlan family and would welcome any info about the O’Loughlans.

        regards
        Wendy

        1. Wendy & James,
          I am researching the O’Loughlan family on behalf of my partner who is a great granddaughter of John Andrew O’Loughlan and the grand daughter of Henry James O’Loughlan.

          James, please pass on my e-mail address to these people who have expressed an interest in the O’Loghlans of Victoria.
          Maria Bate
          John Nicol
          Wendy Leason

    2. hi maria
      im a decendant on the oloughlan side they are my ggg grandparents. i havent got much after micheal & mary olaughlan

      shell

  62. Re: Get-Together. I’ve been avoiding this for a while. But I don’t really have the time to organise anything in this regard. Work is just a little too busy for me right now. Does anyone else want to take the lead on this?

  63. Hi James

    I am a descent of John Hoare, his Daughter Sarah married James Seymour, their son Andrew Seymour, married Margaret Carbery, Their Daughter Lillian Seymour Married John Phillips, There son Allen Phillips is My Grandfather.

    Does anyone have any information regarding the Father of John Phillips, Michael Phillips Born in Sunderland, Durham, England?

    I am just starting to research my family tree.
    Thanks for the Information.
    From Riah

  64. Hi James.
    Ive been trying to gather my family tree together and have discovered I am a descendent of John Waite and Mary Robinson. I came across your site and feel I may fit in, though Im trying to work out where John and mary fit in??
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    regards, kerry.

  65. Thanks for your wonderful site. I am a descendant of John and Elizabeth’s daughter, Mary Hoare who married Michael O’Loughlan. One of their grandchildren, Myra Cecily Maud Keating was my paternal grandmother. She married a John Campbell Nicol.

  66. Hi James and everyone,

    I come from the same branch of the family as Kellie Jones- John Love, John Hore, Andrew Hore, John Hore, John Richard Hore, Myrtle Anne Barton nee Hore, Betty Barberis nee Barton, Carole Curnow nee Barberis.

    I found out recently about the family tree after my mother, Betty Barberis nee Barton had an exhibition about the artistic gene in the Barton/Hore/Macrae families at the new Museum in Albury in 2007. I met Kellie there, she is the grand daughter of my Great Aunt Edna of Tawonga (now 94). The Museum now has Esther Hore’s trousseau, as part of its collection, there are numerous pieces all handworked, exemplifying tatting and embroidery, darning and lace making. It is exquisite work.

    John Richard Hore and his wife Esther (Doubleday) were the proprieters of the Bogong Hotel at Tawonga. My Grandfather, Roderick Barton,(husband of Dolly Hore (Myrtle Anne) of Kent Meadows, Gundowring was a carpenter and helped construct a series of bungalows at the hotel. They were the summer haunt of many great Australian artists including, Arthur Streeton and Septimus Power.

    It must have been very unfashionable to have any connection to convicts as Grandma never mentioned her “family”. We discussed the Barton family history, Richard Barton from Kent who selected land at Gundowring in 1870. The families of Dick Hore and Rod Barton were really large so on the Barton side I have at least 48 first cousins…

    Thank you for such a great read!!!

  67. This is a wonderful site – I have been researching my husband’s family for a few years now, and your site has allowed me to elaborate on so many of the ancestors I
    had found. We are connected through Mary Hoare who married Michael O’Laughlan. Their daughter Mary married Henry Haydon, my husband’s gr grandfather.
    Thank you for this lovely site and possible future connections.

  68. Thank you for your very informative site on the HORE Families.
    I am a distant relation of Leila Minnie BOUTCHER who married Sidney West HORE, the son of Robert Andrew HORE and Margaret (Maggie) McINNES.
    Leila Minnie BOUTCHER was the daughter of Charles BOUTCHER and Mary Ann HALL.
    I have a list of the Descendants of Charles BOUTCHER plus photos.
    I would like to correspond with you and perhaps swap records.
    Thank you once again for your very informative site.
    Best Regards,
    Charlie HAWES
    chawes@bigpond.net.au

    1. Hi James
      Great site. John Hoare and Elizabeth Love are my ggg-grandparents. My grandmother Minnie was the daughter of Andrew who was the son of Andrew, son of John and Elizabeth.
      There doesn’t seem to be much information of Minnie available, if you are interested in her story I would be more than happy to supply you with what I know. you may contact me by email if you are interested
      Annette

    2. I am the grand daughter of Leila Minnie Boutcher and Sidney West Hore. My father is John Hore, son of Sidney. Sidney had 7 children, 5 sons and 2 daughters. John Hore and Elizabeth Love are my great, great, great grandparents. John (Sidney’s son has 3 sons and 3 daughters). Leila’s 2 daughter’s are still alive as is my father John. All doing well in their mid to late 80’s. Many of Leila’s grandchildren and 2 of her 3 still living children continue to reside in the Albury area. Julie

    3. I am the grand daughter of Leila Minnie Boutcher and Sidney West Hore. My father is John Hore, son of Sidney. Sidney had 7 children, 5 sons and 2 daughters. John Hore and Elizabeth Love are my great, great, great grandparents. John (Sidney’s son John has 3 sons and 3 daughters). Leila’s 2 daughter’s are still alive as is my father John. All doing well in their mid to late 80’s. Many of Leila’s grandchildren and 2 of her 3 still living children continue to reside in the Albury area. PS Hard to comprehend all these relatives. Great site. PS Robert Andrew Hore has 11 children Sydney being just one of them. Julie

      1. Hi Julie, I am so glad that you have replied to my message. My Grandmother Ida Ethel Hawes (Nee Boutcher) is the sister of Leila. I have the 7 children listed that you mention. I would like more information on John HORE and Margaret Doreen BYRNE and their children.
        I can send to you what I have of the BOUTCHER and HORE families.
        My Email address is:- chawes@bigpond.net.au
        Looking forward to hearing from you.
        Best Regards,
        Charlie HAWES.

  69. Hi James,

    re Jessie Finlayson, the wife of Andrew Hore born in Airds, according to the Monaro Pioneers site, her mother, Mary Douglas was the first white woman in the Upper Murray.

  70. Hi James.
    Wow, it is a great website.
    I am related to the Seymour family that is connected to this family also.
    From Annette.

  71. Marriage
    366/1886
    Groom HORE HENRY
    Bride GIBBONS ALICE
    District SYDNEY

    Do this couple fit in any were their daughter Charlotte b 1886 m James Pearson 1905 and are my g grandparents.

    Glen

  72. Hi James, Ref your par on Eliza Hoare on this page – as under:
    “* Eliza Hoare was born 1833 at Airds, NSW. She married Sampson Courtney Boyland on 12th February 1853 at Wollongong, NSW. ”
    Thought you might like to see attachment from NSW Archives.

    http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316

    and

    http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5316/4_4787/Alfred_19%20Jan%201841/4_478700147.jpg&No=3

    The ship is the “Alfred” not the Arthur, and the listing is on Page 3, 4th line down.
    Enjoy China .
    Cheers
    June

  73. Hi James,
    I found your article to be fascinating! My uncle, Neil Waite has traced our family tree and Elizabeth Waite is part of that tree. I am not sure if you are aware, but there is another Neil Waite who has won several horse riding competions who’s listed place of residence is Wymah, I found that an interesting coincidence! Regards

    1. Hi Neil, my mother used to correspond with Neil Waite who did the family tree. I have been unable to contact him and have been wondering where he is. The young Neil is part of my extended family and now lives on my grandparent!s former property at Wymah.

  74. Hello James, I came upon your website when I typed in Doomed Talgarno. I copied some of the book years ago. What a wonderful surprise to find your website. Thank you so much. I have always wanted to know more about the Hores. My mother Mabel Rodgers nee Drummond was Matilda Drummond nee Hore’s daughter. Matilda was the daughter of Andrew and Jessie. I have a couple of things I would like to share with you including an article written about Jessie Hore at the time of her 85th birthday. I also have a copy of P.S. Wymah 1873 – 1973 in which is the photo of Andrew and Jessie. I would love a better copy of the photo and wonder if I could be in touch with Kellie Jones and perhaps she could email me a copy. My mother’s sister Elsie was the image of Jessie. Best wishes Dorothy Hyde

  75. The township of Douglass Park was originally called Hoare Town. It was one of two land grants approved south of Camden Park. Dr Henry Grattam Douglass, a close friend of Governor Brisbane, owned the Hoare Town land grant. It was at some stage changed to Douglas Park after Douglass himself.
    Is the town’s former name a reference to a members) of John Hoare’s family from Appin and Airds perhaps?
    Any Information?

    1. Hi Chris, this is really interesting. Google hasn’t been much help, though I note from a BHP Billiton assessment of the land someone called Cathy Hoare provided information. Perhaps a concidence? James

      1. James I just found your site. Elizabeth and John Hoare were my great great great grandparents. I am the daughter of Josephine Bessie Hore (who married Anthony Thomas Monks), and Bessie as she was called is the daughter of Pierce Wagra Hore, Hotelier of Cowra, and Mary Anne Mulvihill. The father of Pierce Wagra Hore was Thomas Hore, who was the son of John and Elizabeth Hoare. Bessie Hore was an orphan. Her two sisters went into the convent, Mab into the Brigadine convent, and May was Mother HOre of the Sacred Heart Order, Kincopple, Elizabeth Bay, Sydney. N.S.W. Bessie also had two brothers, Tom and Jack and an infant William died as a baby. Josephine Bessie Hore was born on 26th June, 1906 at Cowra. My name was Hilarie Monks, and I married John Bardsley Roseman. We live in Victoria. email yarrayarra@net-tech.com.au We have 8 children and 13 grandchildren.

  76. Thanks James. I had come across that BHP doco myself as well as some individuals in which Douglass and Hoare feature together – such as Minnie Victoria Douglass (nee Hoare)who was born in 1898 wife of Wesley Roy Douglass – so I had wondered about the possibility of H G Douglass naming the town originally after a firend or relation. Maybe just coincidence as you say. Shall keep looking. if you find anything please let me know. Chris

  77. I’m a decendant of Mary Hore from my maternal great grandmother Myra Nicol, I’ve got a fair few details of my liniage up to John and Elizabeth Hore but I was wonderng if anyone had any details of further back than that?????

  78. Hello James – many thanks for being so generous with your information. I am not related but I my great grandparents (Barclay) and great grandparents (Jackson) lived and presumably worked on both Wagra and Bungil. My great grandmother is listed as being at Bungil at the time of her death and my grandfather was born at Wagra. I was reading about John Hoare yesterday in the Albury library – I think your piece here is more informative. Cheers, julie

    1. Hello again James – do you have any records of people who lived and worked on Wagra and Bungil? Or perhaps point me in the direction?
      Cheers, Julie

      1. Hi Julie, thanks for your lovely comments. My feeling about sharing is we’re all chasing the same people really, and collaboration and co-operation is a far better approach than everyone chasing the same bits of information indvidisually. I’m interested in what you saw in the Albury library – was it an interesting article? On the issue of Wagra and Bungil – no I’m sorry, but hopefully people reading here might be able to help? Cheers, James

  79. Should any descendants of John Hoare and Elizabeth Love be interested, the annual Mass at the Dapto West Catholic Cemetery where John & Elizabeth are buried in one of the oldest graves is on at 10am, Saturday 30th of November this year. Hore family members usually meet then for lunch at one of the local Clubs.

    1. Hi Terry, I am a descendant of Andrew Hore and I am interested in the reunion at adaptor. Are you having one this year? If you are can you email the details please?

      1. Jennifer: I was up at Shellharbour from Victoria a couple of weeks ago and went out to the Dapto West Catholic Cemetery which now has large new gates out at the roadway. The sign on the fence says “Requiem Mass will be celebrated here on the last Saturday in November at 10:00am”. The best contact if you’re interested in attending would be Marie Chin (Nee Hore) who lives in the area and connected with the Church. 02 4295 7582.

  80. Hi James

    Love the site, thank you – certainly helps to fill in a few gaps!

    I’m a 5 x great grandson of John HOARE and Elizabeth LOVE (through their son Andrew HOARE and Jessie FINDLAYSON). In addition to this, my extended family tree contains multiple connections over several generations between the HOARE/HORE, JACKSON, MCINNES, SEYMOUR and WAITE families mentioned on this site and on Terry HORE’s .

    Hoping you can put me in touch with Julie HIND (who posted a comment here in Feb 2012 re her JACKSON and BARCLAY great grandparents on Wagra and Bungil)? Seems like a strong possibility we’re related…my 2 x great grandfather (in my abovementioned descent) was John Henry “Jack” JACKSON, whose paternal grandparents were William JACKSON and Jane BARCLAY and I believe they were both connected with the Wagra property.

  81. Hi James

    John Hoare and Elizabeth Love were my Great-Great-Grand parents. I am descended through Andrew and his son John Hore, and then his daughter Eliza.

    Interestingly, the family tree at Terry Hore’s site for Eliza is slightly incomplete, as it is missing two of her eight children, my mother Annie Rebecca Doubleday (1910-2013 ….. yes 103 years old when she died!), and my Aunty, Nellie Eileen Doubleday (1916-2005).

    Eliza Hore’s branch of the family are holding a family reunion in the next couple of weeks, so I am looking forward to catching up with some of my Doubleday cousins that I have not seen for many years!

  82. What an interesting site, I had a lot of information up to John Hore and Elizabeth Love but nothing prior to that, so thank you. I am related to John & Elizabeth through their son William. My grandfather was William Stanley Hore, son of Robert. William married Amy Nugent and we grew up in Walwa Vic. Would love any information on that line of the family. Trish (nee Hore)

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