Three Amputees

I made a brief appearance on ABC Radio last night, talking about my experiences as an amputee. When I was asked to do this, I also suggested including two other people who were important to me while I was in hospital. Here’s the audio from the program, as well as a roughish transcipt, with a few corrections for grammar and clarity.

Evenings with Renee Krosch 04/12/23

Renee Krosch : But first up tonight, this story, I think, will inspire you. Because it certainly has inspired me. There is a well known saying, I’m sure you know it, and it goes, I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet. It’s powerful, isn’t it? And reminds us of the need to be grateful for what we have. Let me introduce you now to a man who is my work colleague of almost two decades, a friend. And he has been through an incredible experience this year. He has literally lost his foot, his entire lower leg, in fact, very recently. This is James O’Brien’s very, very real life story of courage, and also of gratitude. And I hope you will be as inspired by James O’Brien story, as I have been James joins us now. Hello, James. You’re very well known to this audience from the regional drive programme for many years.

James O’Brien : And until a few months ago I was doing “Editor’s Choice” on the weekends on radio as well. Everyone’s wanted to know, where has James gone from the radio on the weekend? The story is I was in hospital for about three months, and I’ve been at home now for about two months. And like you say, I lost part of my lower fight limb a few months ago.

Renee Krosch : I remember texting you back in July, when you were in your hospital bed. I texted you to say I cannot believe this has happened. James, what an incredible experience for you to have to go through and you know what you did? You texted me back and said many thanks for reaching out, Renee. It gave me such a smile to see a message from you. You actually went on to say it’s been a while and it will be a while before I can get back to work. But in the meantime, you sent a picture of blue skies and a view of the city and in that moment, I knew that you were okay.

James O’Brien : The response of friends and family and colleagues has been really interesting. There have been some people who thought oh my god, this is the worst thing in the world. You’re in denial. You don’t know how bad this is. Whereas I’ve been quite philosophical about it all. Worse things could have happened. I nearly died. I nearly had brain damage. 18 months ago, my family Lismore nearly drowned. And then also, and maybe this is kind of a weird twist of fate. But I was in Cambodia earlier this year, and I met some people who lost their limbs through landmines.

So when my niece told me about a week or so after the limb was removed, that this is what happened. She was more upset. I think that I was which was quite interesting. I just thought, Look, I’m alive. And that’s pretty good.

Renee Krosch : It’s a very big experience you’ve been through. Take us through exactly what happened because you discovered that you’re type two diabetic.

James O’Brien : I was on holidays with some friends. We were overseas, I got a bit of a cut foot. I didn’t know I was diabetic. And I went into a bit of a not so much a coma, but certainly delirium. And as I was in this delirium, I lost control. I didn’t know what was going on in my life. And, and it wasn’t until I missed the deadline for work, that the alarms are raised here. And someone said, James always meets hisdeadlines, what’s going on. And the alarms are raised by some dear colleagues. And they came to my house along with the ambulance and the police and so on. And my next door neighbour, and they came in and they took me, but I’ve gone off to St. Vincent’s Hospital in Sydney. And then I don’t know what really what happened for the next week or so.

Renee Krosch : So the cut that you had from your holiday, where were you?

James O’Brien : We went to Cambodia and Vietnam.

Renee Krosch : So you had it you endured a car and abrasion in the leg? Yeah. In the right leg. Yep. And you come back from the holiday just fine. When you’re fine.

James O’Brien : I was fine. Yeah, look, I you know, it was a bit sore. But what what happened is it became infected, and the diabetes and diabetes is a major issue. When it comes to amputations, like this. It’s really funny. My granny had an amputation. She had diabetes, like mature onset diabetes 40 years ago, and she had a lower limb amputation, and I believe, of the 8000 or so amputations each year. Diabetes is implicated in about 50%

Renee Krosch : 8000 patients each year in Australia?

James O’Brien : There was a figure from about 2014. I haven’t seen a more recent figure but that was the bigger that I’ve seen that there’s a lot of people and then of course, there are people For her born with differently, length, different length limbs. So for example, there is a woman who works for the ABC, and I can talk about her. Liz Wright, who is a Paralympic gold medalist, swimmer, she was born with different length limbs. And she reached out to me in hospital and said, Hey, here’s my circumstance, if you ever want to talk about prosthetic legs, on the person, and we’ve sort of become friendly over the last few months through that, so there are lots of reasons why it happens to different people. The Diabetes is one issue. And I think, you know, we know that diabetes is a big issue in Australia these days. And it’s really funny, like, you know, everywhere I go, now, I see someone who’s got a missing limb, like we went to the pub yesterday, down at Circular Quay for a friend’s birthday. At the table next to us, there’s a guy missing, like missing limbs. And we settled, you know, we, we have this little it’s quite a secret handshake. I have found in the last few months, and we have a we look at each other and go Hi, are you there? Hey, what’s going on that you know,

Renee Krosch : You’re so positive James, and you so hopeful for your future and you’re back at work, and you’re doing great

James O’Brien : Part time not not quite ready to come back full time yet.

Renee Krosch : I do have to ask you that moment back in July, when you’re in the hospital and the doctors come in to you and they say James O’Brien We need to talk quite seriously. We recommend that…

James O’Brien : No, there was no recommendation. This was an emergency thing. I don’t you don’t remember,

Renee Krosch: You didn’t give consent?

James O’Brien : My niece did on my behalf. For a week or two, I was on some pretty serious pain relief. And I didn’t really know what was going on. Until you know, I was brought out of the induced coma. And my niece told me what was going on. No, I had no idea at all

Renee Krosch : You didn’t look down at your at your two legs.

James O’Brien : I really don’t remember that at all. You know, it’s always on, look, quite serious pain relief. It was like hallucinogenic pain relief, you know, I was all over the place. I don’t really remember it at all? Or is it was other people I know, and you’re gonna hear from one shortly chose to have an amputation. And you would think why would someone choose to have an amputation? Because, you know, we particularly with with a leg, you know, getting around is such an important thing of for all of us, you know, and you know, I’ve been in a wheelchair for a while. And that was a different experience. But you know, it’s it, I look at that remember at all.

Renee Krosch : Did you ever have a moment of why has this happened to me?

James O’Brien : I’ve had a couple of days when I’ve been a little bit sad about things where I just thought, oh god, for the rest of my life. Is this for the rest of my life? And I’ve had to go? Yes. So I’ve had a few days like that. But I’ve tried to be as positive as I can about it. Because again, I’ve seen people in much worse situations,

Renee Krosch : You are impressively positive. James O’Brien is here sharing his story of becoming an amputee, largely because of type two diabetes and an incident that happened on holiday. It could really happen to any of us, really. Australia has the second highest rate of diabetic related amputations in the developed world.

James O’Brien : That’s, that’s why I’m really keen for you to tell the story so that people know about this so that when this happens to you, or when this happens to a family member or friend or something like that, that you’re well armed. And one of the things I really have appreciated so much over the last few months, is talking to other people in a similar circumstance. There’s a Facebook group that I’m involved in called Limbs for Life, that features amputees talking about whole range of things, from really very serious things t….o I’m having my amputation next week, to you know, what’s going to happen? to a one man wanting to propose and wanting to know, how do you get down on your knees when you’ve had an amputation? I love that story. I had my question recently was I’m going to a formal event, and I can’t get my pants over my leg because it’s still quite large. And the answer was, Well, you take your leg off. I didn’t think that. But you know, being able to talk to other people in about this circumstance has been for me beautiful. It’s been really wonderful.

Renee Krosch : Let me introduce you now to Clayton Denny from Newcastle. James O’Brien mentioned the organisation Limbs for Life that’s been really helpful for him, meeting people talking to other people who’ve had the same experience of amputation. Clayton Denny, you’ve had a very similar experience as James Can you can you share it for for us and explain what happened to you?

Clayton Denny : Yes, it’s almost identical actually. I cut my foot on a reef and Stradbroke Island Queensland on Australia Day about two and a half years ago. And yeah, similar sort of thing felt okay came back home and sort of before and now I just thought I had food poisoning. So you know, just lie and lie down in bed and it just progressively got worse until I basically collapsed in the bathroom and yeah, I was I was also put an induced coma sensor Maitland hospital first and they just didn’t know what to do with me. Sent to John Hunter after that, and pretty much went straight in the antibiotics and they found out what strain it was straightaway. And yeah, they just had trauma amputation after that and woke up about a week later. And it No, just missing my left part of my left leg. So I’m a below knee amputee just like James but on the left leg.

Renee Krosch : And Clayton Is this because of type two diabetes like James?

Clayton Denny : It played a part in it definitely. Because I didn’t also did not realise I was a type two diabetic. So yeah, I woke up from the from the coma and had no leg and they’ll say told me type two diabetic as well. So the good news from that, I guess was definitely put some lifestyle changes into me. And from February this year actually reversed. So no medication or anything. Just keep the low carb and yeah, should be all good.

Renee Krosch : Oh, so three dietary change, you will no longer type two diabetic. Correct?

Clayton Denny : Correct. I was insulin dependent for a while and they and I got off that as my diet and everything improved. And then yeah, just stuck to low carb the whole time. And yeah, seemed to do the trick.

Renee Krosch : Clayton Denny you’ve always worked in the mining sector, haven’t you? You’ve been a pretty tough, tough guy?

Clayton Denny : Yeah, I’d like to guess a lot to think that yeah, rugby player as well. So yeah, I’d like to think so.

Renee Krosch : And so on Australia Day back in 2021, when you had this accident on Stradbroke Island, and you cut you thought you come out of the coma and you realise that you’ve also incurred an amputation from below your left knee? What was your reaction in response to what had happened to you?

Clayton Denny : I’m also quite similar, James, because I was also on ketamine as well. So I was hallucinating. It took me a while to sort of as they, as they were weening me off that. I sort of, you know, it all started to hit me all at once here. And I did have a dark moment for about half a day where you know, suicidal thoughts and all that sort of thing came along. And then I just sort of. I’m just going to make you think positive. Lots of deep breathing, all that sort of thing, which is things I never used to do before, before all this. But yeah, just you know, just, this is my life. And I’ve just got to adjust and adapt to it.

Renee Krosch : James says that when he was in the hospital, he was so grateful because he had a lot of support. In fact, he had the support of you, didn’t he? Clayton? You actually spoke to James representing as it being a peer support person for Limbs for Life. Tell us about that.

Clayton Denny : Yeah, I did. James was actually my first client.

James O’Brien : You’re lucky I answered the phone because it was a number. I’d had no idea who it I was When I was in hospital feeling a bit lonely. I thought, yeah, I’ll talk to the scam person. Why not?

Renee Krosch : And it was great. So you call him up just out of the blue and say, Hey, listen, I’m a peer support person for an organisation for Limbs for Life. I’m here to help.

Clayton Denny : Correct. Yeah, so it’s not like any, it’s not really counselling. It’s just more been a mate. Because it’s something I needed when I woke up from hospital because I just the social worker, basically gave me a brochure. Like this amputee magazine. I just had so many questions, you know, like, am I gonna be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life? You know, what’s the sort of future prognosis. I did the training for Limbs for Life. Then became a peer support volunteer. And James is on the first ones I spoke to, for the Deaf on the first ones there. And yeah, just just Tell similar stories where just sort of blew both our minds, I guess. And here we’ve kept in contact. And yeah, it’s good to see him doing well out of it. And it’s just that the stories are so similar to mine. It’s just uncanny.

Renee Krosch : So you must feel like mates now?

Clayton Denny : Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, there’s not too much difference in our age. But here, we’re just two parts of the amputee cog of Australia, I guess.

Renee Krosch : I’m so impressed with both of you. I don’t know if I would respond as positively and as enthusiastically about life ahead, as both of you are describing. And I find that I find that courage and that bravery.

James O’Brien : I reckon you ight because, I mean, there’s no other choice, you know, I the leg is not coming back. I mean, maybe in our lifetime, those legs will be growing, growing back through whatever, but you just gotta either live with it or not, you know, so I think I think he might, you know, and that’s one of the things I got from you, Clayton, is how much your life how you reassessed your life in lots of lots of ways, because you suddenly went, Okay, there are some things in my life I want to change.

Renee Krosch : You’ve made some changes for the better Clayton?

Clayton Denny : Yeah, I certainly did. I, sort of I was in a 20 year marriage, which wasn’t really going too well. So I decided to, you know, just force a divorce onto that. So it’s just holding me back on a lot of things that I took up, I used to be right into music and DJing and all that ever since sort of a young age and got back into music production and DJing. And doing quite well out of that as well. So yeah, just really positive. The divorce was pretty horrible at time, but got through it. All right. And I was and that was, that was only sort of three months after I came out of hospital as well. So I still have really low energy. But as soon as I can sort of walk, I just just just needed to do it, you know, just change my life for the better, as quick as I can.

Renee Krosch : So you’re DJing a DJ? Yeah. Yeah, where can we see you?

Clayton Denny : All over the place. I’m organising a bit of a national tour for next year, as well. Checks One is my stage name. So I’m on Spotify, and all the the apps there,

Renee Krosch : Yeah, and sort of hip hop, hip hop music is that your genre

Clayton Denny : I used to be so I play anything from hip hop to drum and bass now. So anything 82 beats per minute, right up to 176 beats per minute. So a wide range multi genre.

Renee Krosch : OK, great and dandy from Newcastle. So live for you is actually in some ways better, because you’ve had the courage to, to make changes in your life that you might not otherwise have made?

Clayton Denny : Exactly, yeah, that’s, that’s the way I look at it just just, you know, being a lot more positive and yeah, just keeping that positive attitude and, you know, spreading that to others as well that have gone through amputation and whether it be legs or arms, you know, we’re all sort of, it’s a missing limb. And it’s it’s part of your body that’s now like no longer there. It’s something that you definitely need to talk to others that have been through it. It just goes a long way.

Renee Krosch : Let me now bring in Bridget Blair to the conversation, Bridget lives in a retirement village in the Blue Mountains. Bridget. You have a story that’s a little bit different to James and Clayton when it comes to amputation. Tell us about your life living with lower leg pain and that difficult decision that you made to have it amputated.

Bridget Blair : I feel a bit of a fraud after listening to Clayton and James’s stories because my I feel as though mine was pretty easy in that. I just got so tired of being in pain that. Yeah, the decision was made, obviously, between my surgeon and myself that it was time just to get rid of the constant pain and painkillers and seeing different specialists. And so I made the decision that yep, chop my leg off.

Renee Krosch : And at what age was that decision made? Bridget is a recent decision.

Bridget Blair : Oh yes, yes. I had been in and out of hospital the last two years. Attempts to open the arteries in my legs all failed. One was a minor success halfway down. And you know, basically, I was told just nothing else we can do. Until basically you know you start to get gangrene and you get much worse and then you will lose your legs. So I had it Second Opinion, we tried again to open the arteries with little or no success. So a couple of months later discussion with the surgeon and I said, you know, it’s time, and it was the best decision I ever made.

Renee Krosch : You’re in your early 70s. And you’ve lived with lower leg pain? What for how long?

Bridget Blair : Well, I’m not usually very honest with doctors, probably three years, you know, just gradually getting worse but the last 9 or 10 months, just getting to the stage when if I took drugs, I couldn’t drive. If I couldn’t drive, I couldn’t continue with my lawn bowling. And that’s, that’s the love of my life.

James O’Brien : Can I ask you say you’re not really honest with doctors? You’re a nurse.

Bridget Blair : I probably played down the pain for a considerable length of time. And it did get the stage when I say I it was affecting my life completely because bowls, and say I live by myself in retirement village. Very, very active bowler, have been to state events. And yeah, that was my life. And I just couldn’t do it anymore.

Renee Krosch : When you say pain, is it nerve pain?

Bridget Blair : No, it’s pretty hard to describe in it. Well, no, it was more than that. Think of claudication. So you get pain in the back of your leg when you’re walking. But the worst pain was actually in my foot. And there was virtually no blood supply going to my right foot. So yeah, sounds a bit silly, because there was little blood supply, but I was getting a lot of pain in my toes. I was getting an infection there my toes, which wasn’t healing because there was no blood supply to help the healing. So as I say, I made the decision, just chop it off. And, yep, it’s the best, really the best thing I ever did. Okay, it’s a bit of a nuisance, sometimes not having two legs, but…

Renee Krosch : Bridget, what about the other leg for you the left leg,

Bridget Blair : The left leg, touch wood and I can’t find any at the moment is is really good. No pain. I am being very good about doing lots and lots of exercise. I’m walking really well. So that in itself is is some exercise. But I’m doing all the things the physio tells me and being very obedient. And hopefully the left leg will just behave itself.

Renee Krosch : So are you type two diabetic?

Bridget Blair : No! You’re the hundred millionth person that has asked that question. A lot of people, sorry. But every single nurse, doctor, person that came into the room, even in the catering staff said, Oh, I’m not sure this is the right meal. Are you diabetic? No, I’m not diabetic. It’s it’s partly genetic. And, dare I say partly the filter habit of smoking when I was younger.

Renee Krosch : Obviously, you’ve met James O’Brien. Clayton, Jenny, are they? Are they friends of yours that are now going to develop these friendships into the future?

Bridget Blair : I haven’t met Clayton at all. Hi, Clayton. Nice to hear from you. James was a great support to me in hospital. He was a few weeks ahead of me in terms of getting a leg and then going home and lending me his wheelchair. And he was a great support.

Renee Krosch : So what I’m hearing is that one person has an experience with amputation. And you feel compelled to help somebody else?

James O’Brien : I feel that’s why I wanted to come on the radio when you said would you come on shore? And like even yesterday at lunch with my friends, you know, I had one friend and I can, can you he was really curious. And I said, What do you want to know? And he asked me all these questions and I said, Look, no, no question is stupid. Ask Anything. He won’t. And then he asked him something else. And I said, I’m happy to take my leg off if you like to have a look, you know, because I just think it’s such a common thing, oddly enough, but it’s also quite a bit of a hidden thing that we should just talk more about it.

Renee Krosch : Are you happy with the prosthetic?

James O’Brien : Yeah, look, it’s fine. I mean, the only thing is, it’s still I’ve still got quite a large prosthetic because it’s the first one I’ve got a book like new told me that I will get a thinner one at some point, a skinny leg. You can wear skinny jeans again,

Clayton Denny : I love it. I wore them on the weekend. That was That was fantastic. Because this is this is the skinniest one I’ve ever had the skinny a socket for my stomach to go in. Yeah, like James, when you come out of hospitals. It’s massive. It’s just a huge because of the swelling is just huge. And yeah, just keep getting smaller ones as it gets, as you stumped shrinks and the prosthetics. They’re, they’re quite expensive, aren’t they?

James O’Brien : The awesome thing is in New South Wales, New South Wales government paid for my first prosthetic leg, which is awesome. And also, because I’m 58 years old, now I qualified for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. If I was over 65, I wouldn’t have qualified for that. But the NDIS looks after the prosthetic legs after this, which is great.

Renee Krosch : So Bridget Blair in the Blue Mountains, you’re over the age to qualify for NDIS at the age of 70. Did you have to fork out your own money?
Bridget Blair : It’s quite different to James. I have a completely different. Sorry, a completely different scheme. So I’m under my age. And I’m covered for my leg as you with NDIS.

Renee Krosch : So at least we live in a country where there is support from from government from some area to help. Thank goodness for that. This is what we’re going to do. We’re going to round up all the people in the retirement village in the Blue Mountains. We’re going to put on skinny jeans Clayton Denny, and we’re going to come along to one of your big deejaying sessions to watch one next time you’re playing and do some dancing on on the dance floor to techno. How about that?

James O’Brien : I’m into that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Renee Krosch : Thank you very much all of you for sharing your stories. It’s a real issue with 8000 people in this country that have an amputation every year, for whatever reason. A lot of them are due to type two diabetes. But as you heard there from Richard Blair, it’s not always the case. There are so many reasons and it’s such an important topic. So brave of you to all share your story to inspire us. I certainly am inspired by it.

Actually someone here Tony on the text line. James is saying, James, I really really loved your Editor’s Choice. And I wondered what’s happened to that? I’m so sad to hear that you’ve had this significant trauma. But you are an inspiration to us all

James O’Brien : Editor’s Choice not not coming back makes you a few rounds, few changes on ABC Radio next year. What the fact that you’re here now, which is a wonderful thing. So a few changes on the lineup for next year.